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  #51  
Old 01/05/2008, 09:19 AM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrissreef
whats a good temp controller out there short of buying an AC JR?
Purchase a Ranco temperature controller. They are about $75 and nearly bullet proof.
  #52  
Old 01/05/2008, 11:27 AM
discusone discusone is offline
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BeanAnimal,
following along here,can you use the single controller for two heaters,or do you need the dual setup?
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got the reef, but still love butterflys !
  #53  
Old 01/05/2008, 11:41 AM
superedge88 superedge88 is offline
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The dual stage Ranco is used in the case of running a chiller/fan for cooling at a high temp and running a heater for low temp. I use the single stage to run 1000 watts of titanium heaters.
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DRILL IT!!!
  #54  
Old 01/05/2008, 11:54 AM
bergzy bergzy is offline
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bean, your last post ended with a 666!!! that's one in a thousand!!! hahaha...ooohhh, i kill myself...
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...and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and...

Ben.
  #55  
Old 01/05/2008, 12:13 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
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Or in my case 12 times already
  #56  
Old 01/05/2008, 11:21 PM
moondoggy4 moondoggy4 is offline
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I just bought a heater for my 30 gallon cube. It is a Jager Eheim 100 watt. I would not recommend it It will not cycle off . I have not have any problems with my Via Aqua Titanium heater.
  #57  
Old 01/05/2008, 11:26 PM
Jay4Robin Jay4Robin is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Purchase a Ranco temperature controller. They are about $75 and nearly bullet proof.
I ordered mine from Dr Foster and a Finnex Titanium heater from PA.
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  #58  
Old 01/06/2008, 01:13 AM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
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Be careful with that Finnex heater... they had a rash of failures recently.
  #59  
Old 01/06/2008, 01:45 AM
bergzy bergzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Be careful with that Finnex heater... they had a rash of failures recently.
YEP!!!
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...and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and...

Ben.
  #60  
Old 01/06/2008, 07:14 AM
Jay4Robin Jay4Robin is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by bergzy
YEP!!!
oh wonderful

Let us pray

It was in such a nice box also.
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  #61  
Old 01/06/2008, 01:19 PM
albfelix albfelix is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jay4Robin
oh wonderful

Let us pray

It was in such a nice box also.
i bought 2 finex heaters and this thread made me sell them and get two glass jagers
  #62  
Old 01/06/2008, 01:28 PM
Jay4Robin Jay4Robin is offline
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I do not like glass. I had a problem years ago. I have not had problems with titanium before. I do want the controller though. I am sure i will be okay. my system does not get that cold anyway to cause a problem. I am sure PA would have pulled the line if they saw too may problems
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  #63  
Old 01/06/2008, 01:31 PM
albfelix albfelix is offline
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I bought my 2 Finex heaters from PA also. The glass is not just regular glass! Plus I would rely more on German Heaters (Eheim) rather then Finex (China). Just my 2 cents.
  #64  
Old 01/06/2008, 02:05 PM
Jay4Robin Jay4Robin is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by albfelix
I bought my 2 Finex heaters from PA also. The glass is not just regular glass! Plus I would rely more on German Heaters (Eheim) rather then Finex (China). Just my 2 cents.
lke I said pray for me Only few more months of winter

As for german

Aqua medics never had luck 2 skimmers lemons
Geismen lights 2 had to be warrantied and last week another ballast defective 6 months old.


VW cars one of my best customers for brakes LOL
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One day I will not have to scrape my windows!

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  #65  
Old 01/06/2008, 02:32 PM
albfelix albfelix is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jay4Robin
lke I said pray for me Only few more months of winter

As for german

Aqua medics never had luck 2 skimmers lemons
Geismen lights 2 had to be warrantied and last week another ballast defective 6 months old.


VW cars one of my best customers for brakes LOL
I will still stick to German products

Thanks,
Felix
  #66  
Old 01/06/2008, 02:35 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
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With heaters... country of design or origin does not matter much. They are all pretty much the same things with the same inherent faults and failure modes.
  #67  
Old 01/06/2008, 02:39 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
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For those who may have missed the basic point...

1) Using a reliable controller to turn the heater ON and OFF will reduce (eliminate) the wear (fatigue) of the internal contacts and thermostat. This will greatly improve the live expectancy of the heater and prevent most of the failure modes.

2) Using a reliable controller allows you to run the heaters with their heads above water where they can NOT leak AND/OR be affected by ambient room temperature.

3) Placing the heaters in the intake compartment of the sump or better, through bulkheads or heater wells will prevent them from ever running dry, thus eliminating the second most common failure mode.

Pretty simple stuff that most people ignore.
  #68  
Old 01/06/2008, 04:33 PM
bergzy bergzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeanAnimal
For those who may have missed the basic point...

1) Using a reliable controller to turn the heater ON and OFF will reduce (eliminate) the wear (fatigue) of the internal contacts and thermostat. This will greatly improve the live expectancy of the heater and prevent most of the failure modes.

2) Using a reliable controller allows you to run the heaters with their heads above water where they can NOT leak AND/OR be affected by ambient room temperature.

3) Placing the heaters in the intake compartment of the sump or better, through bulkheads or heater wells will prevent them from ever running dry, thus eliminating the second most common failure mode.

Pretty simple stuff that most people ignore.
yeegosh beans,

you gotta stop posting stuff that i constantly agree with!!!
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...and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and...

Ben.
  #69  
Old 01/06/2008, 05:55 PM
viodea viodea is offline
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For those are confused with Jager heater. I had the same question and got an answer from premiumaquatics.com

This is the exact reply that I got from them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the Ebo Heaters, they were fully submersible when it was Ebo Brand,
when Eheim bought them, they had to change the listing to get a USA UL
approval. It's the exact same heater that has been sold for 10 years in
USA though. So you can fully submerse it, but if you do not feel
comfortable with it, it's no problem at all returning it. Just let me
know.

Also, here is a blurp I got from Eheim about these heaters.
_____________________________________________________________
JAGER heaters are fully submersible according to European standards.
However since the production of JAGER heaters was moved to Germany when
EHEIM acquired the company, a new UL certificate must be issued for the
"New" company. This new certificate must be issued to comply with the
North American standards, until then the heater must be labeled as not
submersible in North America. Please note that all JAGER heaters comply
with ETL standards, which is the European Equivalent of the UL
certificate.

_______________________________________________________________
  #70  
Old 01/06/2008, 06:41 PM
pjf pjf is offline
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Eheim advertises its Jager heaters as fully submersible (http://www.eheim.com/jager.htm). I do not recommend placing the head of a heater above water as the ambient air temperature will affect the reading. The reading must be accurate to provide a safety mechanism in case your controller fails or if your controller's sensor accidentally falls out of your tank. The Jager thermostats can be calibrated to provide a safety mechanism.
  #71  
Old 01/06/2008, 11:27 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pjf
Eheim advertises its Jager heaters as fully submersible (http://www.eheim.com/jager.htm). I do not recommend placing the head of a heater above water as the ambient air temperature will affect the reading.
I have a sense of Deja Vu!

If you are using a temperature controller, then this is irrelevant. The heaters should not be trusted on their own. Use a controller!


Quote:
The reading must be accurate to provide a safety mechanism in case your controller fails or if your controller's sensor accidentally falls out of your tank. The Jager thermostats can be calibrated to provide a safety mechanism.
It does not have to be that accurate to provide for failsafe shutdown.

If your "temp probe" falls out of your sump, then you did not use common sense securing it to the sump!

But... Since you insist on bringing this up...

The controller/heater combo with the DRY head is MAGNITUDES less prone to failure than the SAME controller/heater combo with a SUBMERGED heater.

Please follow along, this is very simple!

1) Heaters have a HIGH failure rate when submerged.
2) Industrial controllers have a LOW failure rate.

Subtract from that LOW controller failure rate, the CHANCE that the heaters integrated thermostat will ALSO drift too high to act as a failsafe. It should be crystal clear that the submerged setup is certainly NOT a better option any way you look at it.

If you run multiple heaters on the contoller, then the system becomes even more failsafe.
  #72  
Old 01/07/2008, 01:39 AM
pjf pjf is offline
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Thumbs up

The squeaky wheel should get the oil. If controllers are more reliable than heater thermostats, then more will be gained through better operation, care and calibration of heater thermostats.

Last edited by pjf; 01/07/2008 at 01:49 AM.
  #73  
Old 01/07/2008, 02:21 AM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
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Once again we find ourselves in that oh-so-familiar situation. If your points or logic prevailed in even a small fraction of these debates, I would understand your insistence on continuing them.

If you feel the need to calibrate your ebo-jagger heaters, then nobody is stopping you. Most of us could find a better use for our time...

A simple twist of the heaters control knob once a month is sufficient to check the operation and failsafe point. If the heater is not submerged and is run on a controller then the 2 larges failure modes can be fully avoided. Using several smaller heaters instead of a single large heater will greatly decrease the chances of catastrophic failure.
  #74  
Old 01/07/2008, 02:27 AM
bergzy bergzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pjf
The squeaky wheel should get the oil.
squeaky wheels get replaced for me.
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...and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and...

Ben.
  #75  
Old 01/07/2008, 08:55 AM
pjf pjf is offline
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Smile

I'm looking for better thermostatic heaters myself!
 

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