Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > General Interest Forums > Responsible Reefkeeping

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01/10/2008, 05:48 PM
cortez marine cortez marine is offline
Reefer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Jose, Calif
Posts: 243
Divers die collecting "cool" rare fish

People,
The pursuit of deepwater wrasses in Vanuatu and deepwater ventralis anthias in Tonga has killed two divers these past few months.
I just got off the phone to my own guy in Tonga and he said the reason there was not so much alarm is because they were both Filipinos under contract and not locals with families.

The grieving families in the Philippines did not apparently count.
They were promised a severance pay...that never got sent....
They were also both pressured to dive deep for the coveted species in order to get paid.

Beautiful fish, dangerous...200 foot depths, and scandalous business.
There is no way to work 200 foot w/ conventional scuba and not kill divers.
The only press so far is this.
There will be more as I dig futher.
Sincerely, Steve
  #2  
Old 01/10/2008, 11:15 PM
chrissreef chrissreef is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas
Posts: 513
People don't believe sweat shops exist...

but IT support in india makes something like 1/20th what an IT person would make here... maybe less

and this hobby (aka irresponsible short term thinking capitalism imo) fuels dangerious behaviors by the niave for $0.05 to fuel our hobby "desires"

and the papparazi kills but we still purchase the magazines

Sadly, out of sight, out of mind for most "Americans" as it's the "American" way... just like Social Security and National Debt. Whether it's half a world away, or half a century away - "Americans" don't care unless it interferes with their "progress"

Welcome to the Global Warming debate... and the "it's a hoax" motto of the club that really means to say "we don't care"
__________________
One's standard of living is definitively determined by the size of their reef. - me

We live with each other, not for ourselves - Protect our planet
  #3  
Old 01/11/2008, 08:40 AM
Buckeye ME Buckeye ME is offline
Always a Buckeye
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 793
Wow. Do you make bumber stickers too?
__________________
"Nothing cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." - Woody Hayes
  #4  
Old 01/11/2008, 12:13 PM
old salty old salty is offline
Mortar Target
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 2,870
Two guys die trying to make a living and then it's all the fault of America? Nice way to throw in the global warming factor; as if one has anything to do with the other.


What makes you think these fish were destined for America? This is a world wide hobby. Maybe they were collecting fish to be sold in Japan, or Thailand, or Hong Kong, or Germany, or France, or Norway, or Bahrain.

Out of site, out of mind; this is human nature, not something restricted to Americans. If you have never been out of this country, you would have no idea what I am talking about.
__________________
The irony of 2007 is a disgustingly fat multi-millionaire trying to tell me I need to cut back on my consumption.
  #5  
Old 01/11/2008, 12:50 PM
chrissreef chrissreef is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas
Posts: 513
"Two guys die trying to make a living and then it's all the fault of America?"

ah, you missed my point

"What makes you think these fish were destined for America? This is a world wide hobby. Maybe they were collecting fish to be sold in Japan, or Thailand, or Hong Kong, or Germany, or France, or Norway, or Bahrain."

true - but the US imports more than 90% of all ornamental fish/corals in the world according to MAC and other sources... which in itself places a lot of responsibility of the causes of collection practices.

"Out of site, out of mind; this is human nature, not something restricted to Americans. If you have never been out of this country, you would have no idea what I am talking about."

/sigh, your knowledge of the world and human behavior is extensive I see

"Nice way to throw in the global warming factor; as if one has anything to do with the other. "

If you look beyond the surface and silos you'll have your answer =)
__________________
One's standard of living is definitively determined by the size of their reef. - me

We live with each other, not for ourselves - Protect our planet
  #6  
Old 01/11/2008, 02:09 PM
old salty old salty is offline
Mortar Target
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 2,870
"ah, you missed my point."


I certainly did. Could you please state it again.



"true - but the US imports more than 90% of all ornamental fish/corals in the world according to MAC and other sources... which in itself places a lot of responsibility of the causes of collection practices."


I agree. Rather than demand low prices like many hobbyists, I look for sustainable collection practices. It costs me more, but tends to be more beneficial in the long run.


"sigh, your knowledge of the world and human behavior is extensive I see"

It sure is. I've spent many years traveling abroad. The similarities between otherwise polar opposite cultures is sometimes fascinating. You really can't learn this stuff by reading about it.



"If you look beyond the surface and silos you'll have your answer =)"


You lost me here.
__________________
The irony of 2007 is a disgustingly fat multi-millionaire trying to tell me I need to cut back on my consumption.
  #7  
Old 01/11/2008, 02:23 PM
Mark Mark is offline
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 2,046
Send a message via Yahoo to Mark
Folks, please cool it. If this turns into a flame fest or a political soapbox, we'll be forced to close the thread. And that would be regrettable, as the original poster has contributed a valid and important discussion to the responsible reefkeeping forum.

Instead of generating spite, how about we discuss buying practices that would encourage these livestock collectors to practice safer and more humane collecting.
__________________
'Everything in excess is opposed to nature.'
Hippocrates
  #8  
Old 01/11/2008, 03:18 PM
RumLad RumLad is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Over here :)
Posts: 240
Why don't we just stop importing all species of tropical life, if they cannot be farm raised?
Surely there are enough species that the hobby would survive.
you never know, some clever sod might actually find it economical to provide aquacultered species in the vast marketplace that would develop.

I feel we can only blame ourselves for the devastation that this hobby wreaks. (and by "us", I mean all hobby members, not just those of us here in the godd old US of A)
__________________
"It is never too late to give up your prejudices" H. D. Thoreau
  #9  
Old 01/11/2008, 03:59 PM
greenbean36191 greenbean36191 is offline
Soul of a Sailor
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Huntsville/ Auburn, AL
Posts: 7,859
Send a message via AIM to greenbean36191
Quote:
Why don't we just stop importing all species of tropical life, if they cannot be farm raised?
Well, from a conservation standpoint that's not exactly a smart move given the other industries that are competing for the same resources and the comparably lower values they put on them.
__________________
Lanikai, kahakai nani, aloha no au ia 'oe. A hui hou kakou.
  #10  
Old 01/11/2008, 05:17 PM
chrissreef chrissreef is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas
Posts: 513
“I certainly did. Could you please state it again.”

Sure – the point was that industry demand (and often price wars) fueled by consumers continue to support unsafe behavior/practices. Be it coal mining/demand for coal, demand for pictures of celebrities, demand for guns (schools shootings vs aarp) etc. In my opinion, the consumer lacks responsibility in this country. It’s not an easy fix but if the price wars (among other things) stopped, safer equipment/practices might be used (or alternatives like the aquacultured livestock industry). Not quite related but... I work in the defense industry – and I found out this week that due to a price war, we found a loophole which is allowing my company to ship equipment to Iraq untested – yikes! A political issue is now brewing between camps of what’s “right” and what’s “profitably right” – neglecting soldier safety of course. I’m not sure the customer/government knows yet… but I wouldn’t be happy if I just spent $500m+!

“I agree. Rather than demand low prices like many hobbyists, I look for sustainable collection practices. It costs me more, but tends to be more beneficial in the long run.”

Excellent! I wish more did this =( I never know what to think of you because I never see “constructive” posts from you… just ones trying to refute things – which to me reminds me of tobacco companies claiming their products don’t cause cancer. Yet... you frequent the "responsible reefkeeping" forum =?

“It sure is. I've spent many years traveling abroad. The similarities between otherwise polar opposite cultures is sometimes fascinating. You really can't learn this stuff by reading about it.”

100% agree – in addition, one of my best friends over the years is now receiving her doctorate in psychology so it’s always intriguing to hear that angle vs sociological angles/experiences.

“You lost me here.”

Everything is related – you just need to break it down. It’s not a direct relation of course but you can definitely see some links. You may not think you and I are related or that what I do has any impact on you… but it may. Everything I do, whether it be typing here, or writing in magazines, volunteering in public organizations or having my aquarium featured in a book you may have read – it’s all impactful and related in some way. Heck, windmills in another state are powering this PC right now which may/may not impact CO2 and Nitrous oxide in the atmosphere and supports a technology/engineer in another state. Small – but it’s there. This is why I want everyone to recycle, support renewable resources, be responsible etc.

Ttyl!
__________________
One's standard of living is definitively determined by the size of their reef. - me

We live with each other, not for ourselves - Protect our planet
  #11  
Old 01/11/2008, 05:29 PM
chrissreef chrissreef is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally posted by greenbean36191
Well, from a conservation standpoint that's not exactly a smart move given the other industries that are competing for the same resources and the comparably lower values they put on them.
True =) I'm still a believer in some certificate/regulation program is needed though... I believe there's too much waste/replace in this industry.

My local club had a great presentation from secore.org this week. They're "thinkin" about trying to reintroduce elkhorn corals they've been raising into the caribbean since 90-95% of the coral has died in the last 10-15 yrs. Personally, I think distributing frags is a better idea until temperatures/whatever is causing issues in the sea to settle down. I'm not so sure their current ~3k frags will survive/make much difference in the sea... but I could be wrong. Tough call imo!
__________________
One's standard of living is definitively determined by the size of their reef. - me

We live with each other, not for ourselves - Protect our planet
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central™ Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2009