Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > General Interest Forums > Do It Yourself

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08/18/2007, 12:47 PM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
My Octopus OTP3000 DIY needlewheel

Well after many months of playing with mesh mod and venturi's I decided to create my own true needlewheel for the Octopus OTP 3000 pump. I looked at many different needlewheels and have created many but I think that I am getting it narrowed down to a good design. I am not posting any numbers as of yet but it far surpasses the stock performance on this particular skimmer (DNW-200). I have been working on concintricity of the whole assembly while spinning to keep wattage and drag down. The first NW pins were round and wattage and air draw were only about 10-15% better,not quite as good as mesh mod. Then I reduced the amount of pins and made them bigger but it wasn't any better...performance suffered on this on. Then it was 3 rows of pins, then 4 ,5. I just couldn't get the performance I was after. Then a Design Eng. suggested making the pins square, more edges to cut and mix the air/water mixture.Now I am playing with the amount of pins/rows/size of pin. This is the latest

IMG][/IMG]

If you have any advice or idea's post them here. I have a new test pump and spare needlewheels coming Monday to continue testing these out so more to follow.

Robert
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #2  
Old 08/18/2007, 02:58 PM
luke33 luke33 is offline
One Good Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,622
Looks good, will be glad to see the results. The only prob i see with this is how is everyone suppose to make them.
__________________
There's no such thing as a normal reef, there's just reef
  #3  
Old 08/18/2007, 04:54 PM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
Once im happy with the final product I will be happy to give them away .........for a fair price .

Really I never gave much thought about other ppl reproducing them. I just wanted to maximize my skimmer efficiency without having to deal with meshmodding and such. I have about 40-50 machine hours total so far.Probably machined at least a dozen needlewheels so far. I think i'm getting close though.
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #4  
Old 08/18/2007, 06:32 PM
patej patej is offline
Registered Member.
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: in the middle of nowhere
Posts: 47
looking good,,,,
  #5  
Old 08/18/2007, 07:38 PM
Ewan Ewan is offline
lift it up tallways
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Posts: 2,674
Very innovative! They look great, fwiw.
E.
  #6  
Old 08/18/2007, 10:53 PM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
DIY Junkie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wilmington, Ohio
Posts: 1,445
Are those aluminum heatsink material? are you going to make the final product out of plastic? what machine are you using to mfr these?
__________________
Jeff
  #7  
Old 08/18/2007, 11:01 PM
won digity won digity is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Long beach, CA aka ghetto beach
Posts: 472
that looks good... did u make those on a table saw?

edit: oh,, nevermind the table saw coment.. I see that they aren't
  #8  
Old 08/18/2007, 11:06 PM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
DIY Junkie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wilmington, Ohio
Posts: 1,445
spngebobby: have you tried rotating the square pins 45deg.? I would think that would get you less drag with angled faces to the water instead of squared faces pushing into the water. Also, with them rotated, there will be a sharp edge to "cut" the air instead of just a blunt face hitting the air.
__________________
Jeff
  #9  
Old 08/19/2007, 10:08 AM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
That's a great idea JCTewks. That will be my next change. I may be able to run less rows also and still get the same performance.
Thanks
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #10  
Old 08/19/2007, 11:19 AM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
Here is a quick dwg. [IMG][/IMG]

I will try to machine one this week.
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #11  
Old 08/19/2007, 10:15 PM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
DIY Junkie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wilmington, Ohio
Posts: 1,445
that's what i was thinking!! Are you using a CNC mill or Lathe to machine that? What CAD are you using?

In my mind I've pictured a pinwheel similiar to that one, only with just one outer row of pins, and mesh in the center.

You'll want some holes through the base plate on that as well for decreased weight, and water circulation to the cooling channels around the magnet. Solid plates tend to hinder the pump from cooling itself.
__________________
Jeff
  #12  
Old 08/20/2007, 08:32 AM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
Yes I made them on a CNC mill (high speed). I use Solidworks to draw and Solidcam to program with. I will try to add some holes. They will be awful small in the area where the pins are but around the hex I should be able to fit some nice sized holes.
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #13  
Old 08/20/2007, 12:40 PM
koraltek koraltek is offline
pwn3d by skimzor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: seattle
Posts: 561
wow, very impressive, watching closely
  #14  
Old 08/20/2007, 01:19 PM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
Well I just finished machining the latest one and will post pic's of it tonight. I think this is the one........ I HOPE....
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #15  
Old 08/20/2007, 02:37 PM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
DIY Junkie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wilmington, Ohio
Posts: 1,445
eagerly awaiting the pics
__________________
Jeff
  #16  
Old 08/20/2007, 03:57 PM
dhnguyen dhnguyen is offline
Moved On
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kingston, WA
Posts: 4,753
Send a message via Yahoo to dhnguyen
Impressive CNC work no doubt. Keep us updated once you can get the design to pull more air than the mesh.
  #17  
Old 08/20/2007, 07:49 PM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
Well here are the pics of the latest one.. It has been running for 2 hrs. I only have the skimmer filled just enough to cover return from OTP3000. So far I would say that the pump is definately cooler to the touch than it was running mesh-mod.It's hard to tell how much air it's pulling but it's sucking alot harder through the venturi hose. I have an air meter but it's out on loan

Thanks for the comps dhnguyen

Well here's the pics.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #18  
Old 08/20/2007, 08:02 PM
customcolor customcolor is offline
Brighter the better
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: kaukauna, wi.
Posts: 870
that is insane. what is you spacing between the needles. thats got to be a heck of a small endmill
  #19  
Old 08/20/2007, 09:22 PM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
I'm using a 5/64 .500 LOC 3fl carbide micro endmill. The spacing between the square's are .085 on the radius and .100 from row to row. Run time is 18 min 36 sec. from start to finish. I'm running 10000 mm/min on the feed rate. Like I said earlier this is on a very nice High Speed machine center. Spindle RPM is 30000.They could be made on a standard VMC but they would take probably 1.5 hrs to make one.

The material is 2.284(same dia. as stock needlewheel) round and .490 thick slug. Material is acetron,delrin,etc....

Update....I am running it on the tank now and within 45 sec. of hooking it up I had to adjust the ball valve almost to full open because it started to flood the cup. The water level in the skimmer use to be right under the union on the cup now its below the angle part by about 1/8 inch. She is really putting out some thick foam. I did just clean the cup so I will give it some time to slime up the cup. So far I beleive it's pulling alot more air than the mesh-mod(sucking on my finger pretty hard). If i covered the venturi hose with mesh-mod it would just make a clunking noise. When I do it now it sucks so hard it collapses the stock air hose but venturi is opened up with a drill bit as big as I could get it with-out breaking through.
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #20  
Old 08/20/2007, 11:40 PM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
DIY Junkie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wilmington, Ohio
Posts: 1,445
IF you get into making more I'd like to get one from you and play with some different venturi's.

Looks real good...Is this one performing better than the one with the sguares the other way? I hope it wasn't to hard to program those holes in there, but i think it will help with longevity of the pump.

what is the weight of that compared to the stock NW? Also, do you have a kill-a-watt?
__________________
Jeff
  #21  
Old 08/20/2007, 11:44 PM
SlowCobra SlowCobra is offline
I buy in bulk!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Crest Hill, IL
Posts: 1,319
I'm with Jeff on this one. If the watts are around stock and that thing is performing that well I would be interested in one as well.
__________________
Todd

Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience.

Do not for one minute believe this hobby is cheap or easy. Get a hooker if you want that!
  #22  
Old 08/20/2007, 11:59 PM
shelburn61 shelburn61 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 1,285
What material is it made from?

Get an air meter for (*&*)_%% sake!!!
  #23  
Old 08/21/2007, 10:05 AM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
I checked the watts this morning and they were at 86 on the kill-a-watt. I believe the pump is rated for 60 watts I think, so it's pretty close. As far as air draw it's sucking quite abit more than it did stock. Start up problems are not a problem at all. Doesn't chatter at all. It made about a cup of nog from 10 pm last night to 10 am this morning.



Gonna try and get my air meter back today.....

Stay tuned
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #24  
Old 08/21/2007, 10:06 AM
spongebobby spongebobby is offline
I LIVE IN A PINEAPPLE....
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perryville, Missouri
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally posted by shelburn61
What material is it made from?

Get an air meter for (*&*)_%% sake!!!

Delrin
__________________
120 AGA RR
Ecosystem 3612
Reef Octopus DNW-200
GEO 6x18 Calcium Reactor
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 2x250 12k Reeflux w/ 216 watts Blue+ T5's
210 lbs. Gulf-Keys-Fiji LR
50 lbs. LS
  #25  
Old 08/21/2007, 10:37 AM
slc-reef slc-reef is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 35
Great Idea
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2009