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  #1  
Old 08/31/2007, 08:08 PM
landy landy is offline
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Lightbulb DIY Orca NW skimmer {please advise}

Here is the basic layout:

12" body X 24"
Reduced to 6"
7 7/8" ID bubble Plate X 5" deep

Reeflo Orca NW pump

The design is a tunze type head with an improved Orca bottom box.

So lets have it, what needs changed, and why?








bubbeplate and top box .dxf cutsheet.



thank you for your input

landy
  #2  
Old 09/01/2007, 05:05 AM
lvpd186 lvpd186 is offline
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Looks really good to me! I've been thinking about trying something similar. How would your internal plumbing look? I would guess the only internal plumbing would be from the pump output to the bubble plate area. Also would there be any benefit to raising the bubble plate up a few inches? It would give the chamber a little more room plus less chance of having micro-bubbles getting drawn down in to the box.
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  #3  
Old 09/01/2007, 10:27 AM
landy landy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lvpd186
Looks really good to me! I've been thinking about trying something similar. How would your internal plumbing look? I would guess the only internal plumbing would be from the pump output to the bubble plate area. Also would there be any benefit to raising the bubble plate up a few inches? It would give the chamber a little more room plus less chance of having micro-bubbles getting drawn down in to the box.


lvpd186,
thanks!

Yes the internal plumping would be a 1.5 pvc pipe through a uni-seal from the outer box into the bubbleplate box.

also, i see what your saying about the bubble being sucked into the box.

how about this for the fix:



anything else?

landy
  #4  
Old 09/01/2007, 12:07 PM
lvpd186 lvpd186 is offline
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I think that would work. Do you think by moving the bubble plate towards the top of the tube that it would give more space to the area under the bubble plate and possibly reduce some turbulence?
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  #5  
Old 09/01/2007, 12:51 PM
landy landy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lvpd186
I think that would work. Do you think by moving the bubble plate towards the top of the tube that it would give more space to the area under the bubble plate and possibly reduce some turbulence?
Makes sense.

Now bubbleplate box is 9” total, 5” above and 4” below.





what else!

landy
  #6  
Old 09/01/2007, 05:05 PM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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Well, the only way that it will reduce turbulence (moving the plate up like that) is if you use a bleeder valve/outlet on the bottom of the bubble plate cyclinder so you can relieve some water pressure under the plate. I would suggest feeding this water back into the dart via a valve for fine tuning.
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  #7  
Old 09/01/2007, 05:22 PM
shelburn61 shelburn61 is offline
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I think you should look at other pumps. Much cheaper and more efficient options out there... A meshwheel Laguna, a couple eheim 1260's, etc. Are you planning an air pump feed on the orca?
  #8  
Old 09/02/2007, 12:00 AM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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A threadwheel dart can compete very well... better than the needlewheel.
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  #9  
Old 09/02/2007, 12:47 AM
landy landy is offline
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Hahnmeister,

How big would the bubbleplate box need to be inorder to avoid the need for a pressure relief loop?

What threadwheel dart are you talking about, got a link?


Thanks for your input.

landy
  #10  
Old 09/02/2007, 11:52 AM
RichConley RichConley is offline
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I dont think a 6" neck is big enough. You'd be better off with 8.
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  #11  
Old 09/02/2007, 01:03 PM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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I agree... 8" neck would be better. 6" could be too narrow... the head wouldnt get a chance to drain at all and you might end up with overflow problems.

Threadwheel Dart:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=1

Size of the box... well... that depends on alot of things. The actual air vs. waterflow of your design. Thats why I suggest a seperate loop with a valve on it so you can regulate the actual flow, and then feed anything you might get back into the pump, since their may be some microbubbles. The ideal would be something larger than 8" in diameter... maybe more like 10"-12" (not possible here)... but to make up for this... you could just have more height under the plate. The ReefFlo doesnt even do anything like this at all, so I wouldnt worry too much. Its just a way to limit the water turbulence even further. A 1" pipe/valve should be enough to really cut down the pressure coming through the plate.

Also, I dont know why you have the ring around the bubble plate(looks like a PVC/toilet flange). To hold it in place or something? I would just leave it as open space.
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  #12  
Old 09/02/2007, 01:07 PM
MarkS MarkS is offline
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Trying to show up my 3D skills, huh? Well, FINE! I'm going to go pout...















J/K!

Nice design!
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  #13  
Old 09/03/2007, 06:46 AM
lvpd186 lvpd186 is offline
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Are you going to build this now or are you still thinking about design changes?
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  #14  
Old 09/03/2007, 12:02 PM
landy landy is offline
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Well, im still trying to figure out what hahn is saying. I cant imagine needing a 8” neck, considering that the reeflo skimmer seems to work with what looks like about 6”,, maybe im wrong?

So yes, I guess I am still working on the design. Then I need to draw each piece in dxf, so my girlfriend can cut them on the laser cnc @ her work. She brought home a few test cuts on Friday, that thing is amazing!

Does anyone know if infact the reeflo orca has a 6” neck or not?

Hahn if you could explain what this means any better I would greatly appreciate it:

Quote:
Originally posted by hahnmeister
Size of the box... well... that depends on alot of things. The actual air vs. waterflow of your design. Thats why I suggest a seperate loop with a valve on it so you can regulate the actual flow, and then feed anything you might get back into the pump, since their may be some microbubbles. The ideal would be something larger than 8" in diameter... maybe more like 10"-12" (not possible here)... but to make up for this... you could just have more height under the plate. The ReefFlo doesnt even do anything like this at all, so I wouldnt worry too much. Its just a way to limit the water turbulence even further. A 1" pipe/valve should be enough to really cut down the pressure coming through the plate.
I ask Again, how much height is needed to overcome, i have 9"'s now, is that enough?

Landy
  #15  
Old 09/03/2007, 12:05 PM
landy landy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hahnmeister
Also, I dont know why you have the ring around the bubble plate(looks like a PVC/toilet flange). To hold it in place or something? I would just leave it as open space.
O'yah, if i dont have my (toilet flange), then how is the water going to exit the skimmer body???
  #16  
Old 09/03/2007, 12:29 PM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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A taller cylinder for under the plate would give it more volume just like if it was wider. How much depends on how much you are trying to relieve. I have not worked with darts, so I cant tell you how much you will need. I know Spazz does this on the Volcanos, and his bubble chambers are about 12" tall and 12" in diameter. There is no way for you to get this, but anything helps. Your 8" diameter plate should still be fine, you just wont be able to relieve as much before you get microbubbles through the bleed port.

As for the 'toilet flange', I just thought that leaving the area blank (open space for the water to flow down freely) would be the easiest and best for bubble sorting.

BTW, I like your neck and collection cup design... very 'Bubbleking mini'. It might just be easier to copy it 100% though... have the ring seal/bottom of the cup be machined into the reducer, rather than the reducer funnel below. There will still be bubbles this way that can make their way around.
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  #17  
Old 09/03/2007, 12:33 PM
lvpd186 lvpd186 is offline
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Well if you draw the plans in solidworks I would love to take a look at them (and maybe make one for myself). I'm not really getting what Hahn is talking about either. I understand the pressure relief to reduce turbulence, but I'm not sure how you would route that back in to the pump input. Maybe a visual example would help?
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  #18  
Old 09/03/2007, 01:20 PM
landy landy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hahnmeister
A taller cylinder for under the plate would give it more volume just like if it was wider. How much depends on how much you are trying to relieve. I have not worked with darts, so I cant tell you how much you will need. I know Spazz does this on the Volcanos, and his bubble chambers are about 12" tall and 12" in diameter. There is no way for you to get this, but anything helps. Your 8" diameter plate should still be fine, you just wont be able to relieve as much before you get microbubbles through the bleed port.

ok, i understand what your saying. Take a look @ this:



I have never worked with a dart NW either, but I am basing my design off of the fact that this one works well.


As for the 'toilet flange', I just thought that leaving the area blank (open space for the water to flow down freely) would be the easiest and best for bubble sorting.

Ok, let me work on this a bit, and see what I can come up with

BTW, I like your neck and collection cup design... very 'Bubbleking mini'. It might just be easier to copy it 100% though... have the ring seal/bottom of the cup be machined into the reducer, rather than the reducer funnel below. There will still be bubbles this way that can make their way around.

it’s a tunze like neck

A for porting a bubble plate relief back to the dart inlet, the more I think about it, the better of an idea it would be. There is allot to be said about adjustability. Wouldn’t there be an easier way to achieve this? Maybe not, you tell me??

landy
  #19  
Old 09/03/2007, 01:21 PM
landy landy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by lvpd186
Well if you draw the plans in solidworks I would love to take a look at them (and maybe make one for myself). I'm not really getting what Hahn is talking about either. I understand the pressure relief to reduce turbulence, but I'm not sure how you would route that back in to the pump input. Maybe a visual example would help?
solidworks,,, i will check that out.
  #20  
Old 09/03/2007, 02:37 PM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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Well, with the Tunze neck, the reducer funnel is part of the main body. This way, no bubbles can sneak around the funnel. Then the neck comes down and around the top of the funnel. On your design, the funnel is attached to the cup rather then the body... this is different. If you are trying to get the same design as the Tunze, make the funnel part of the body. then, you will have to put a 1/2" port on this 'void' area for the air intake, and then another port for water overflow and air intake. This way, if the skimmer ever goes foam crazy, this 'void' will fill and the air intake for the dart will start sucking down water... stopping the crazy foaming. Honestly, the 'crazy foaming' is usually due to skimmers with necks that are too narrow for the air throughput. Its common with some ER skimmers because they sometimes have more than 100-130 lph per square inch of neck area. This is waaaay too much. The 'ideal' is about 60-70 lph per square inch of neck. This produces a much more stable head of foam that wont 'go crazy' as easily.
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  #21  
Old 09/03/2007, 03:09 PM
landy landy is offline
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How about this:

10” OD X 8” tall Bubble plate box.
  #22  
Old 09/03/2007, 03:22 PM
landy landy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hahnmeister
Well, with the Tunze neck, the reducer funnel is part of the main body. This way, no bubbles can sneak around the funnel. Then the neck comes down and around the top of the funnel. On your design, the funnel is attached to the cup rather then the body... this is different. If you are trying to get the same design as the Tunze, make the funnel part of the body. then, you will have to put a 1/2" port on this 'void' area for the air intake, and then another port for water overflow and air intake. This way, if the skimmer ever goes foam crazy, this 'void' will fill and the air intake for the dart will start sucking down water... stopping the crazy foaming. Honestly, the 'crazy foaming' is usually due to skimmers with necks that are too narrow for the air throughput. Its common with some ER skimmers because they sometimes have more than 100-130 lph per square inch of neck area. This is waaaay too much. The 'ideal' is about 60-70 lph per square inch of neck. This produces a much more stable head of foam that wont 'go crazy' as easily.

I realize that the reducer is not attached to the collection cup in the tunze skimmer, but the reducer is NOT fixed to the skimmer body, it is removable as well.




my design should work similar, the seal should be tight so bubbles don’t enter easily, yet if the water level rises this area will fill as well.
  #23  
Old 09/03/2007, 06:48 PM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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hmm... interesting. It must be a rubber gasket on the tunzes or something. Hmm... didnt know that.. only seen the AquaEuros in person, and those are fixed in place. I dont know that your design will have that same 'anti-overflow' feature to it though, since I think the water needs to spill over the top instead. Still... interesting though. Hey, if you think you can make it that snug of a fit though... go for it.

I like your new box. I hope the slot around the outside of the 10" diameter is enough though now (12" diameter body would be about 11" on the inside only if its 1/2" thick... leaving only a 1/2" space around the bubble plate). I suppose w/o the 'toilet flange' cutout there, the remaining area is actually larger than before, but still... could be too narrow. You are prolly alright with an 8" or 8.5" diameter bubble plate... the bleeder valve is just something extra that ReefFlo doesnt even do... and its not like their skimmer is exactly hurting without it.
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  #24  
Old 09/03/2007, 10:28 PM
landy landy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hahnmeister
(12" diameter body would be about 11" on the inside only if its 1/2" thick... leaving only a 1/2" space around the bubble plate).

1/2" thick

i was planning for 1/8 inch!

were do you get your acryilc tubing? i cant even find 12" by 1/2" thick, and dont want to know what it would cost when i did find it.

i was planning on getting my tubing for mcmaster, do you have a better source?

landy
  #25  
Old 09/03/2007, 10:33 PM
hahnmeister hahnmeister is offline
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Im not sure, but does McMaster have cast acrylic that size (not sure actually)? 1/8" is too thin... at least, I would suggest 1/4" thick, if not 3/8".
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