Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > General Interest Forums > Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #26  
Old 12/30/2007, 08:55 PM
Fishbulb2 Fishbulb2 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 986
Depends a bit on on how much temp differential you expect between the room temp in the aquarium. All I can really do is give you my experience. My 250W heater is set at 80 degrees on my 50 gallon system. My room temp dips to about 60 degrees or slightly lower at night (we don't use our heating) and my heater cannot keep the tank at 80. So the temp drops to about 78. Not a big deal but the point is that i'm clearly on the edge of heating with a 250W heater on 60 gallons trying to increase temp by 20 degree. So think about how much you actually need to heat (in terms of degree differential).
__________________
hello
  #27  
Old 12/30/2007, 09:28 PM
pjf pjf is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,227
Per the Jager website (http://www.eheim.com/jager.htm), the Jager heaters are "fully sumersible." The Jager thermostat can be calibrated should it drift:
(1) Measure the water temperature with a glass thermometer
(2) Pry up the blue button
(3) Set the temperature selection disk to the actual water temperature
(4) Push the blue button back down
  #28  
Old 12/30/2007, 10:21 PM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
Most heaters can be submersed.... however, they are MUCH more prone to failure. If you don't put the head under water, then there is no way that water can leak past the seal into the envelope. Pretty simple.
  #29  
Old 12/30/2007, 11:43 PM
seagirl seagirl is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 671
Quote:
Originally posted by ElDiabloPollo
With the AC jr I just plugged 3 heaters into a powerstrip, set the heaters to 79 and plugged the powerstrip into the AC jr. I then set the temp for the heaters to go off at 78.5.
Be careful, i have had 2 ACJR temp sensors go bad within a month.
  #30  
Old 12/31/2007, 12:40 AM
albfelix albfelix is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Queens/NYC
Posts: 516
wow i never had any bad experince with any heaters so far. I used Won Brothers before and now I switched to Finex since I heard that their titanium wont corrode as much as Won Brothers. I guess I will try one Jager as well and compare which one is better. I have a JBJ Artica chiller and also ReefKepper 2 controller with digital temprature display so I can compare the readings to the heaters.
  #31  
Old 12/31/2007, 07:43 AM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
Quote:
Originally posted by albfelix
wow i never had any bad experince with any heaters so far. I used Won Brothers before and now I switched to Finex since I heard that their titanium wont corrode as much as Won Brothers. I guess I will try one Jager as well and compare which one is better. I have a JBJ Artica chiller and also ReefKepper 2 controller with digital temprature display so I can compare the readings to the heaters.
As mentioned, sometimes you get lucky. You can find hundreds of Won Bros and Finnex horror stories. The units are simply not reliable and in some cases are pretty dangerous!
  #32  
Old 12/31/2007, 09:33 AM
pjf pjf is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,227
I've tried keeping the head of a Jager heater above the water line. The thermostat is affected by the cooler air and thinks the water is cooler than it actually is. Submerge it for accuracy.
  #33  
Old 12/31/2007, 11:30 AM
albfelix albfelix is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Queens/NYC
Posts: 516
I went and bought two 150 watts eheim heaters.
  #34  
Old 12/31/2007, 01:17 PM
ElDiabloPollo ElDiabloPollo is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Amherst, NY
Posts: 355
I would go with 3 100 watt heats reather than 2 150's. Basically if one goes haywire it has les chance of overheating the tank.
__________________
J

"And that's all I have to say about that."
  #35  
Old 12/31/2007, 01:28 PM
albfelix albfelix is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Queens/NYC
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally posted by ElDiabloPollo
I would go with 3 100 watt heats reather than 2 150's. Basically if one goes haywire it has les chance of overheating the tank.
ReefKepper 2 controller will shut both heaters down if temparture goes beyond 80.5 F
  #36  
Old 12/31/2007, 02:20 PM
ElDiabloPollo ElDiabloPollo is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Amherst, NY
Posts: 355
Yes, but as stated the temp probe on the controller can also fail. It is all about multiple levels of failover.

So, in the case, although unlikely that you temp probe is on the fritz, and then your heater fails and stais on 100 watts of heat will take longer to overheat your tank than 150 watts.

I know it is unlikely, but with $1000's in livestock I prefer to be cautious.
__________________
J

"And that's all I have to say about that."
  #37  
Old 12/31/2007, 02:42 PM
customdusty customdusty is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Geneva, IL
Posts: 24
I agree that having a few less powerful heaters is the way to go, however can it be problematic if multiple heaters are place really close together?
  #38  
Old 12/31/2007, 04:46 PM
pjf pjf is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,227
If you place your thermostatic heaters in a sump where the flow is high, they will not interfere with each other. My heaters are in the return compartment where a level controller makes sure that the water level does not drop below a certain point.
  #39  
Old 12/31/2007, 05:44 PM
dsanfilippo dsanfilippo is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 75
I have one of the stealth plastic coated heaters and have been pretty happy with it. I also control it with my AC3 primarily, and use the thermostat as a backup. Only problem I had was both times that the temperature probes went nuts on my AC3. This happened to 2 probes in 6 months. Everyone consider yourself warned - the AC3 fails high (at least for me X 2) to 119 degrees on mine!! This was the old design probe the small plastic tip (~1/4inch) The new one is closer to the size of a short pH Probe.
It had my heaters and halides off and chiller running for a couple of hours...luckily the chiller's electronic thermostat prevented it from cooling too low...disaster averted. Sorry to digress on the AC3...just a thought on redundant thermostats...Heating or cooling.
  #40  
Old 01/01/2008, 10:17 AM
xraydoc xraydoc is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 111
I use an aqua medic titanium heater with the biotherm controller and have been very happy with it. Certainly more expensive than some of the other heaters discussed, and Im not sure if it is really any better. I do however feel quite safe with this setup.
__________________
"If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water." ~Loren Eiseley
  #41  
Old 01/01/2008, 10:26 AM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
Quote:
Originally posted by pjf
I've tried keeping the head of a Jager heater above the water line. The thermostat is affected by the cooler air and thinks the water is cooler than it actually is. Submerge it for accuracy.
This is not an issue if a temperature controller is being used
  #42  
Old 01/01/2008, 10:29 AM
BeanAnimal BeanAnimal is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,710
Quote:
Originally posted by dsanfilippo
I have one of the stealth plastic coated heaters and have been pretty happy with it. I also control it with my AC3 primarily, and use the thermostat as a backup. Only problem I had was both times that the temperature probes went nuts on my AC3. This happened to 2 probes in 6 months. Everyone consider yourself warned - the AC3 fails high (at least for me X 2) to 119 degrees on mine!! This was the old design probe the small plastic tip (~1/4inch) The new one is closer to the size of a short pH Probe.
It had my heaters and halides off and chiller running for a couple of hours...luckily the chiller's electronic thermostat prevented it from cooling too low...disaster averted. Sorry to digress on the AC3...just a thought on redundant thermostats...Heating or cooling.
Exactly why I prefer to use a Ranco. They are indisutrial/commercial controlles and have a VERY low failure rate. They are field proven and nearly bulletproof.
  #43  
Old 01/01/2008, 10:41 AM
tgreene tgreene is offline
Reefer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jonesboro, Arkansas
Posts: 1,451
I have tried most of them, and currently the only heaters that I will use are the Aqua-Medic 500w Titanium tubes w/o the t-stats, because all 3 of my systems are being controlled with individual Lighthouse Controllers.

-Tim
  #44  
Old 01/01/2008, 11:23 AM
intermision intermision is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 48
I like my ViaAqua titanium heater, it's always spot on.
__________________
"Don't take life too seriously; you'll never get out of it alive."
  #45  
Old 01/01/2008, 11:41 AM
Jay4Robin Jay4Robin is offline
Indiana Jones Of SPS
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Downingtown PA
Posts: 2,807
Send a message via AIM to Jay4Robin
okay i got up the morning and my tank was 76degrees. My heater was off. It seems to have a short. I keep it set at 78. I tapped on the controller and it went on. The unit is about 4 years old.
Which Ranco controller should I use and who has the best price?
I also want a titanium heater. I have about 180 gallons water volume. Who has the best one and how many watts? My head is spinning from so many choices. I know not to get the WON unit with the fancy controller.


thanks
Jay
__________________
One day I will not have to scrape my windows!

DVRC Vice President
  #46  
Old 01/05/2008, 01:48 AM
albfelix albfelix is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Queens/NYC
Posts: 516
I just recieved two Eheim Jagers 150Watt model 3606. I bought them from Big Als

http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCat...Type=0&offset=

These are the most confusing heaters that I have ever bought. On http://eheim.com/jager.htm it says that they are FULLY submersible WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Big Al also says is submersible. RIGHT because they do not mention the magic word; FULLY.

The Box says Submersible, RIGHT.

And the instruction manual says:

Do not submerge:
Water level must never be over water level mark (3) on the housing.

Mark (3) happens to be right below the blue disk which has the temperature numbers.

So in other words these heaters are not FULLY SUBMERSIBLE!!!! WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY!!! They look nicely build but they are way too long also and not fully submersible! Not sure if I will be able to mount them in my sump since they are too long! Guys who have been running these heaters fully submerged don't be surprised one day when your entire livestock gets fried!

Last edited by albfelix; 01/05/2008 at 01:59 AM.
  #47  
Old 01/05/2008, 02:04 AM
albfelix albfelix is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Queens/NYC
Posts: 516
Check out this link

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/top.../TPheaters.htm

#3
Jager TS Automatic Heater

Jager has taken their already popular heater and made it better. The TS Automatic Heater model now features a low water level safety switch. Constructed of heavy-duty, 2mm thick, shock-resistant Pyrex glass, this heater's advanced sensor holds the temperature steady, adjustable from 64 to 90F. The thermostat is accurate from 0.5, and the unit is completely waterproof, but is only submersible to the specified water line.

#8
Ebo Jager Heaters

The now Ehiem-Ebo Jager basic heater features a precision bi-stable thermostat, with plus or minus 1/2 degree F holding temperature. The temperature setting is an easy to adjust control dial with accurate 1 increments, from 65 to 93 degrees. It has 2mm thick thermal shock resistant glass for extra sturdy construction, but is NOT completely submersible.

What is the difference between 3 and 8?!?!?! These guys are very confusing. "Jager has taken their already popular heater and made it better." How did they make it better?!?!?! ...unit is completely waterproof, but is only submersible to the specified water line.

Reading from other forums is that they are fully submersible but they just stated it that way to get them UL approved. Don't know who to trust now.

Last edited by albfelix; 01/05/2008 at 02:12 AM.
  #48  
Old 01/05/2008, 02:16 AM
bergzy bergzy is offline
Brother Maynard
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: The OC, Baby!!!
Posts: 4,082
Quote:
Originally posted by ElDiabloPollo
I use 3 Ebo Jager heaters on my 90 contoller with my AC jr.

I highly recommend the Jagers and also recommend some sort of controller, either AC jr, Ranco, or other.
i have read problems with EVERY heater out there here on rc. there is not one heater that 'someone' hasnt had problems with. i wills tick with the ones who have been making them with the best track record: ebo jager's (but just bought out by eheim so...'cross your fingers'). i 'had' a 20 year old ebo which finally met its end when i dropped it high up onto my concrete garage floor.

i use 4 ebo's on my medusa controller for a total of 900 watts to heat my system. the 100g sump and 65g refugium is located in the garage...and while it doesnt get 'that' cold in socal during the winter...it does get cool enough to make my heating struggle when i had 700 watts only. oh and, yes, heating my tank in the winter is definitely more expensive than cooling it with fans in the summer...think socal edison electricity rates...among (if not) the 'highest' in the nation.

i would never use ANY heater without a separate and dedicated temp controller. this is the second most common tank crash disaster thread i read on rc. most will never have problems...but i dont want to be the 'one'. while nothing is 100%...i wont trust my countless hours of work and countless (i stopped counting) dollars to a $25 heating unit with a built in regulator...just my 2 cents.
__________________
...and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and...

Ben.
  #49  
Old 01/05/2008, 02:35 AM
chrissreef chrissreef is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas
Posts: 513
whats a good temp controller out there short of buying an AC JR?
__________________
One's standard of living is definitively determined by the size of their reef. - me

We live with each other, not for ourselves - Protect our planet
  #50  
Old 01/05/2008, 02:43 AM
customdusty customdusty is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Geneva, IL
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally posted by albfelix
I just recieved two Eheim Jagers 150Watt model 3606. I bought them from Big Als

http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCat...Type=0&offset=

These are the most confusing heaters that I have ever bought. On http://eheim.com/jager.htm it says that they are FULLY submersible WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Big Al also says is submersible. RIGHT because they do not mention the magic word; FULLY.

The Box says Submersible, RIGHT.

And the instruction manual says:

Do not submerge:
Water level must never be over water level mark (3) on the housing.

Mark (3) happens to be right below the blue disk which has the temperature numbers.

So in other words these heaters are not FULLY SUBMERSIBLE!!!! WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY!!! They look nicely build but they are way too long also and not fully submersible! Not sure if I will be able to mount them in my sump since they are too long! Guys who have been running these heaters fully submerged don't be surprised one day when your entire livestock gets fried!

Well, you just experienced the exact thing I was worried about.... The submersible jager confusion that I posted earlier on this thread. The Jagers have conflicting information all over the place and I believe you set the record straight. Well, at least I know now that they are NOT actually submersible. Unfortunate for you and your wallet, but many of us will be thankful for you sharing this.
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2009