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  #1  
Old 05/13/2007, 03:38 AM
fbacungan fbacungan is offline
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Monster Emperor diet

Hello all,

I asked several LFS's to special order me an extra large Emperor Angel for my 400 gallon FOWLR. The biggest that I've seen at most LFS's were about 6 inches.

To my surprise, a LFS was able to get me an 11 inch BEAUTIFUL Emperor Angel 2 days ago. The biggest and most beautiful that I've seen except at large public aquariums. The diameter of the five gallon bucket is 11 inches.

My only concern is transitioning this guy to a "captivity" type of diet. While I see that his appetite is healthy (I've seen him picking at my live rock for food), he doesn't eat free floating type food that I feed the other fish. Maybe it's a little too early?? Maybe he's in transtion and he'll eventually eat? I've had him 2 days.

I have some very aggressive fish in the tank that eats everything in sight (3" clown trigger, 3" pink tank trigger, lunar wrasse, tangs). I feed the tank pellet formula one and two, krill, home made seafood mixture, and several kinds of nori.

Does anyone have suggestions to stimulate this guy's appetite to "captivity" food or will he eventually eat free floating food? For those who have received adult fish, who long did it eventually take for it to accept your food?

Look forward to your replies.

Fred
  #2  
Old 05/13/2007, 10:08 AM
DamnPepShrimp DamnPepShrimp is offline
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A fish that big is going to be tough to feed. Large angels feed mostly on sponge. There is an angel and butterfly diet that has some sponge in that. Maybe try that or a freshly opened clam? Give him some time too, hopefully he will come around and eat prepared foods, also please POST A PIC of this beauty!
  #3  
Old 05/13/2007, 11:19 AM
fbacungan fbacungan is offline
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Thanks for the feedback PepShrimp.

I couldn't figure out how to imbed a pic in the thread.

Try this maybe:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showg...126363&thumb=1


Last edited by Reefcherie; 05/16/2007 at 07:01 PM.
  #4  
Old 05/13/2007, 12:04 PM
fbacungan fbacungan is offline
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Oh, by the way, I'm looking for feedback and experiences from other large angelfish owners.

In another forum, I received a message that large angels like this should be kept in the ocean. I don't want to spark a political debate. I just want to ensure that this fish gets the most out of its "captive" life.
  #5  
Old 05/13/2007, 12:20 PM
DamnPepShrimp DamnPepShrimp is offline
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He is in a 400g tank? Your fine then, people say you can only keep one angel per tank, that myth has been broken many times over. Every fish is different, it all depends on their personalities. There are some fish that should be kept in the ocean, like sharks, some large tangs, etc. If you have a big enough tank, then it is ok. In retrospect, then every fish should be left in the ocean. Your emperor will be fine in a 400g tank, most have a lot less then that. Mine is only 4" and just starting to change, I will upgrade when needed, but a 125g is fine for now. I saw the pics, very nice emperor, what else is in the tank? Any more pics of the tank itself? I would really just work on getting him to eat, that is the most important thing, he'll be happy in a 400g tank, what are the dimensions btw?
  #6  
Old 05/13/2007, 12:50 PM
fbacungan fbacungan is offline
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Hi Pep Shrimp,
The dimensions are for a 360 gallon with a 75 gallon sump (it really only holds about 40 gallons of water).

I have a 3 inch pink tail, 3 inch clown trigger, some tangs, and a medium GSM. I don't have full tank pic's yet. I'll try to post some later.

The metamorphosis of your 4" will be fascinating. That's why I've always been drawn to these fish. Bye for now.
  #7  
Old 05/13/2007, 01:43 PM
DamnPepShrimp DamnPepShrimp is offline
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So the 360 is roughly 120x24x29? I just figured that out real quick, could be a number of different dimensions. Regardless, the emperor will be fine in that tank, I don't see him getting much bigger, maybe 1-2" they don't usually get over a foot in captivity. The juvi angels are easier to adapt to captive life, therefore you can wean them on prepared foods. Also I wanted to see my angel go thru the color changes, same with my 3" queen, she is starting as well. I don't see any of your fish bothering the emperor, they usually have to be the boss fish. Mine chases a gray that is 6 inches!! So has he ate anything yet? You should look into frozen food with sponges in it, should help him to be weaned onto frozen/prepared foods. Good luck, keep me updated.
  #8  
Old 05/14/2007, 12:24 PM
BlueNWhite BlueNWhite is offline
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It's not their usual diet, but you could try some nori/seaweed on a clip. That was all my 4" juvenile would eat at the beginning until it started to eat pellets after a few months.

Good luck. It sure is a beauty with the streamer that is starting to grow.
  #9  
Old 05/14/2007, 03:36 PM
Chevrontang25 Chevrontang25 is offline
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That is one of the most beautiful fish I have seen. Good luck with him
  #10  
Old 05/15/2007, 01:17 PM
kalel1976 kalel1976 is offline
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Tank size has nothing to do with the argument that people propose when discussing leaving large angels in the ocean. The problem is most angels above 8" adapt poorly to captive life which should be common sense logic. A fish this size has probably spent several years of its life living in the vast water of the ocean and adapts to a specific diet and social niche and the ability to swim where it wants when it wants. That fish is then removed from its habitat, stuffed into a bag made for a much smaller fish and shipped across the planet. Unless the fish is going into a 100,000 gallon tank then it will have a difficult time accimilating to the confines of even the larger home aquariums. It will no longer have its staple diet since hobbyists have not come up with a sufficient method of duplicating a sponge rich diet and will more than like slowly die from nutritional defficienies and stress.
This is why it pains me when people buy show size fish and expect them to be happy in a small tank, and yes, a 400g tank is to small for the wild caught 11" emperor.
Even if this fish lives it really should have been left on the reef.
Now that my rant is over, I want this fish to not die on you so I would suggest that you try the following items to get it to eat:
Fresh clams or mussels on a half shell. Go to your local market and buy these fresh and crack them open and place them in the tank for the fish to eat. If it eats them, continue to feed the fish like this for first few weeks. After that, you can start mushing frozen mysis, brine, clams, angelfish/butterfly formula, flake food, etc. into the empty clam shells. If it eats these then you may be able to get it to eventually eat the food without the shells.
It also wouldn't hurt to get a couple of sponges every once in a while and let it nip on those. Make sure that they come from pacific waters since atlantic sponges may be toxic.
Good luck.
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  #11  
Old 05/16/2007, 02:57 AM
marcrunner marcrunner is offline
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Amen kalel!
  #12  
Old 05/16/2007, 04:20 AM
fbacungan fbacungan is offline
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Thanks for your opinions. However, as I reiterated in a previous post, I don't want to spark a debate about this. Everyone will have an opinon about keeping animals captive (large or small) versus its entertainment value for humans, but let's keep those opinions away for now. After that last post, I'm feeling like the bad guy. Thanks for the warm welcome..

If you are the owner of a large angel (or similar large fish , 8inches+, with simiar traits as an angel), and you were able to successfully adapt it to captive conditions, your feedback will be heard and greatly appreciated. If not, well.......

I was able to gather this feedback from other large angel owners:

- It can take up to 2 weeks for large fish like this to adapt to prepared foods.
- The owner of 5 large angels fed his the following: seaweed sheets, krill (both dry and frozen), mysis shrimp and the large formula 2 flake foods, as well as macro algeas like macro-feast. At some point, it will accept mostly anything you feed it.

If other large angel owners would like to share their experiences, that would be awesome!
  #13  
Old 05/16/2007, 10:28 AM
kalel1976 kalel1976 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by fbacungan
[B]Thanks for the warm welcome..[B]

[welcome]

I was able to gather this feedback from other large angel owners:

- It can take up to 2 weeks for large fish like this to adapt to prepared foods.
- The owner of 5 large angels fed his the following: seaweed sheets, krill (both dry and frozen), mysis shrimp and the large formula 2 flake foods, as well as macro algeas like macro-feast. At some point, it will accept mostly anything you feed it.
Ideally this is a good well rounded diet for most angels but getting them to eat is the tricky part. You shouldn't just wait two weeks before you start going out of your way to try and get it to eat because it may be to late. I would start with the regiment I proposed above immediately. I have also used B12 vitamens to increase the appetites of finicky fish to prompt them to start eating. In the future you should setup a QT tank that you can house fish like this in. When fish like this are kept away from liverock and other fish it is easier to ween them on prepared foods because right now it is going to continue to pick at the live rock and ignore prepared foods.
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  #14  
Old 05/16/2007, 11:13 AM
Nocturnal Nocturnal is offline
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As a long time keeper of large angels I will offer you my diet for which I feed all my fish.
I also want to say gorgeous fish. I'm a little jealous

I go to the supermarket fresh fish section and purchase the following FRESH:
Scallops
squid (both rings and tentacles)
cat fish "nuggets"
Tilapia fillet or any other fish (salmon, sole, etc etc)
raw shrimp
clams
once in a while I may go crazy and throw in a little crab (legs)
I also look for whatever "new" stuff they may have

I bring this home and chop it all up fine. Many times I use the blender to hack it up more finely. I mix in the pet store bought frozen "angel formula" along with garlic. For the garlic you can use the pet store bought kind or sometimes I use supermarket bought kind in a jar.

Like I said, this is all chopped up and blended together. I put it into zip lock bags and freeze sheets of it.

During the week I feed this mix daily along with freeze dried krill as treats. Mine absolutely love freeze dried krill.

Every other day I put in sheets of nori

and once a month I go to the local pet store and pick up a live sponge (whether it be a ball sponge, tree, or other kind). I place this in the tank and they graze off of this until it's either gone or dead.

Hope this helps
Oh, post some more pics!!
  #15  
Old 05/16/2007, 12:26 PM
fbacungan fbacungan is offline
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Thanks much, nocturnal. Greatly appreciate your experience.

I like the idea of the live sponge. It will probably be the most expensive fish food I've bought, but I see this helping in the transition.
  #16  
Old 05/16/2007, 02:14 PM
KuanTi KuanTi is offline
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how is he doing in the tank so far? any odd behavior? any fish bullying him? etc etc. I've noticed that if and when angels establish themselves in the tank as the dominant member, they're more likely to eat more cuz they're comfortable with their environment. You can always try live brine to see if he'll even eat it. if he does you can slowly mix in frozen brine/mysis and see if he eats those accidentally and slowly increase the ratio of live vs frozen. i've had some success with that method. anyways good luck. good looking fish.
  #17  
Old 06/03/2007, 04:51 PM
scoutmaniak scoutmaniak is offline
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Good luck with that beautiful fish!! IMO it was way way to old to pull from the wild. That guy is probably 2 mybe going on 3 years old. And his whole life he has had the huge ocean to roam for food and do what angels do, lol. It is gonna be really hard to make him happy in an aquarium, no matter how big it is. Its up to you, and im not gonna tell you your wrong, but it would have been much easier (and cheaper) to get a fish under 5 inches and grow it up in captivity. In a 400g tank, it would be easy to transform a juvi to adult colors. And most emperors you get around the 5 inch mark are 90% changed anyway... Again best of luck with that beautiful fish!!! Keep us updated,

Michael
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  #18  
Old 06/04/2007, 07:33 AM
Heterodonut Heterodonut is offline
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My experience with a large emperor angel is once it adapts to its new surroundings it will eat everything. Mine is 8 inches and will come right up to my hand to take food. It even eats flakes! Now of course it gets a well balanced diet of fresh seafood (it loves squid tentacles) and nori and formula foods and mysis, but he is not picky, is super healthy, eats like a pig. He is in a 20 X 10 X 2 lagoon. Good luck with you r show size emp. If he is in good health in a stable environment with good food, he should be a friend for at least a decade.
  #19  
Old 06/04/2007, 08:37 AM
vijaym85 vijaym85 is offline
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I have I have 5 angels myself and here is my food suggestions which work for me.

1. Ocean nutrition Formula 2 pellet/ Frozen
2. Ocean Nutrition Green Seaweed
3. Hikari Marine A
4. New Life spectrum large fish formula
5.Broccoli


I suggest investing money in a variety of foods and hopefully your fish finds a favorite. Some trial and error work.
  #20  
Old 06/11/2007, 12:56 AM
freshwater freshwater is offline
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How you measure a Fish length. Does it includes the Tail also.
  #21  
Old 06/11/2007, 02:17 AM
ntrlfive ntrlfive is offline
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one of my favorite fish
  #22  
Old 06/11/2007, 01:45 PM
Carch melanopte Carch melanopte is offline
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Marine Angel not eating

At current I have 7 large marine angels anywhere from 6-12". At first many refuse food in aquariums. My personal experience has taught me that if you offer a large slection of foods from the start you will increase the chances of the fish eating sooner and adapting to captivity.
Some of the choices of food that I have offered before to my angels to entice feeding include. Live ghost shrimp, Cut live clams, Cut live mussels, Live shrimp, live brine, live mysis shrimp shrimp, Cut sponges from my reef tank, Cut soft and stony corals, Small snails removed from their shell (this seems to work the best). Some of these feeding choices can become quite expensive in the long run. Let me know how things turn out for this fish, as imperator angels are my favorite angelfish. Mine is around 9"
 

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