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  #1  
Old 09/28/2007, 11:27 AM
Jim_Leyland Jim_Leyland is offline
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can u go skimmerless?

im about to set up a 29 gallon and was wondering if i put about 50lbs of rock in there do i really need a skimmer if i do small wc's every week.. it will have some softies in there and a few small fish.. lmk what you guys think
  #2  
Old 09/28/2007, 11:27 AM
an411 an411 is offline
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Its not necessary but it is recommended
  #3  
Old 09/28/2007, 11:56 AM
msn711 msn711 is offline
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On a tank that small, I wouldnt' run a skimmer, especially if you don't have a sump to hide it. And your not doing sps...no, I wouldn't bother with a skimmer. The water doesn't need to be pristine for softies.
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  #4  
Old 09/28/2007, 12:03 PM
Jim_Leyland Jim_Leyland is offline
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i want to put my anemone from my 150 in there tho so it has to be pretty clean
  #5  
Old 09/28/2007, 02:10 PM
msn711 msn711 is offline
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What kind of anemone? If it's a BTA, I still don't think I would go to a skimmer.

Costs:
- most of the hang on back skimmers are garbage, except maybe the tunze skimmers or the small deltecs (you didn't say whether there was a sump or not)
- a HOB skimmer is also going to take up valuable space

Benefits: cleaner water, if you get a top of the line skimmer

Cost vs benefits, I'd still lean towards no skimmer.
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  #6  
Old 09/28/2007, 02:26 PM
steri steri is offline
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This is just my personal opinion, but if you wanted to keep any corals or anemones in the tank, I would recommend getting a skimmer. In a fish only tank, it's no big deal, but with an anemone and other corals, I think you need to get a skimmer. That's just my thoughts.
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  #7  
Old 09/28/2007, 02:28 PM
michaeldaly michaeldaly is offline
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I would not put an anemone in that size tank. I had one in my 65 but had to give it away as it got to big for my tank.
  #8  
Old 09/28/2007, 02:34 PM
chrisjet chrisjet is offline
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only 29g's - i wouldnt go with a skimmer
  #9  
Old 09/28/2007, 03:34 PM
Nanemene Nanemene is offline
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I had no skimmer in my 29, and I had a big, healthy anemone (until I upgraded and he didn't survive the move).
  #10  
Old 09/28/2007, 03:50 PM
papagimp papagimp is offline
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75g, no skimmer. RBTA's everywhere. It's definatly possible, but I'd rather have a skimmer on my tank, just havn't made up my mind which I want yet. I do have a nicely stuffed refugium, lot's of cheato and red grape caulepra in it. Seems to be helping. I'd recommend running carbon more often than you would with a skimmer and up the % for water changes a little. I do closer to 15-20% on my 75 w/ no skimmer and do about 10% on my 55 w/ skimmer. I honestly can't tell much of a difference in livestock behavoir/colors/anything between the tank with a skimmer and the tank without. Even parameter levels stay pretty close to one another with the exception of Ca.
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  #11  
Old 09/28/2007, 04:32 PM
stealthbimmer stealthbimmer is offline
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i have been running no skimmer on my 20l for awhile now...i do not have any corals or anems in there yet, but i do a 4g change every 10 days or so and the water stays crystal and my perams are perfect
  #12  
Old 09/28/2007, 04:49 PM
davidryder davidryder is offline
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I haven't run a skimmer on my 90g for almost a year now. I have 2 refugiums and my nitrates are at a healthy 0ppm
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  #13  
Old 09/28/2007, 05:08 PM
Alaska_Phil Alaska_Phil is offline
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I chucked the Prizm skimmer from my 20 Long about 6 months ago. Even after neglecting it, and not doing a water change for 2 months my corals are doing well. However, you couldn't hardly see them anymore from all the various macro algaes that sprung up! It also has both green and red hair algae growing in it, but I decided not to worry too much about those since my Rainford Goby likes to hunt Pods in it.

I'll get a photo of it tonight and post it. Corals include:
Green star Polyp (doubled in size in past year)
Green Zoo's (look healthy but not spready)
Various mushrooms (spreading nicely)
Encrusting Monti (tiny hitchiker that's now trying to cover the Zoos!)
Chili Coral (not doing as well, but just moved it and it seems to be perking up)

Motiles:
Red Antenna Goby
Rainford's Goby
Peppermint Shrimp
False Perc Clown (recent addition)
3 hermit crabs
5 misc snails.
Limpet (recently discovered hitch hiker)

So, it's definitly possible to have a nice tank without a skimmer, I just don't think you'll get the pristine look without lots of water changes.
  #14  
Old 09/29/2007, 12:07 AM
WI Reef Lover WI Reef Lover is offline
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I had a 29 gallon tank for a long time and now a 46 that has been running for about a year with NO PROTEIN SKIMMER.
I will also admit though that I'd like to have 1 but they're so BIG that i don't think i'd have space for any corals if I put one in and i'm not real thrilled with a hang on myself.
I have had a large carpet anenome in there for a year and he is doing fine. My perculata clown is loving every minute of it. I also keep an open brain, a frogspawn, a candy cane coral, a giant mushroom coral, various smaller mushrooms(that are multiplying), zooanthids, button polyps, yellow polys some tree leathers, a cabbage coral and even a crocea clam and a gonipora (i admit the gonipora could be looking better, i've had him for about a year). They are all alive and doing well. I do keep up on the water changes and I vaccume the bottom about once a month. ( i have a sand bed and quite a bit of live rock) I even have cucumbers that have multiplied. I do have 3 different types of macro algae growing 1 that I purchased and the other 2 sprung up by themselves, 1 is halimeda and I'm not really sure what the new one is but it's pretty so i let i grow and try to keep it under control. I also keep the fish down to a minumum. I have 1 perculata clown, 2 green clown gobies, 1 firefish goby and a neon dottyback (he's kind of aggressive but really pretty). I also have the turbo snails of course and a coral banded shrimp. I don't have any hermit crabs in the tank right now. I do not have any large fish which i think helps. I also have 1 brittle star that I've had for about 2 years now.

Sorry for the length here, but like I said it can work. i have been battling hair algae issues but I seem to have less and less all the time and more of the purple coraline algae. I have to agree with the last posting that it proably won't be pristine, I don't think that mine is real pristine looking all the time, you have to keep up the maintenance more without the skimmer.
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  #15  
Old 09/29/2007, 12:21 AM
davidryder davidryder is offline
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When you remove the skimmer you see many many things thrive that you would never see on a tank with a skimmer. Feather dusters, mini brittle stars, snails, macro algaes, sponges... A skimmer is primarily used for nutrient export. If you can find a method that exports the unwanted nutrients a skimmer does then that would be great. A skimmer also has the potential to decimate pod populations...
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  #16  
Old 09/29/2007, 01:23 AM
Alaska_Phil Alaska_Phil is offline
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As promised some photos of my 20 gal skimmerless tank. Keep in mind I neglected the poor tank terribly this summer and I'm just starting to get caught up on maintenance.

http://www.mosquitonet.com/~wanderer/tanks/tank.htm

Phil
  #17  
Old 09/29/2007, 01:29 AM
serum153 serum153 is offline
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Search for aquabucket as he has one of the best tanks I have seen and it is skimmerless
  #18  
Old 09/29/2007, 01:36 AM
coast2coast7390 coast2coast7390 is offline
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technically you dont need a piece of equipment but its recomended

i did a small skimmer on my 30 it really helped with the heavy bio load
  #19  
Old 09/29/2007, 01:37 AM
ThaNgBOm321 ThaNgBOm321 is offline
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on a small tank i would not use a skimmer, well i should say i would not buy a skimmer for a small tank, but if i had one already then i would use it... on a small thank i think WC is much better for a tank... i mean for the $$ spent on a skimmer, you could buy a bucket of salt and that would last you a long time.... skimmers help keep maintence down but how hard is it to chang out 10% of 30 gals??... 1 bucket in,one out.. takes just as long cleaning the collection cup... and the plus from WC are the trace elements that you add..

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  #20  
Old 09/29/2007, 12:47 PM
CruzinKim CruzinKim is offline
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Just do weekly 3g water changes and forget the skimmer.
  #21  
Old 09/29/2007, 01:18 PM
Harbour Harbour is offline
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Do a search on "Skimmerless Tanks", a lot of people go skimmerless, size of tank has nothing to do with the need by the looks of the variety of skimmerless tanks.

If I'm not mistaken there was a 4000 gallon tank that was skimmerless.

It appears that skimmerless tanks can do well and appear to have the same troubles as those with skimmers.

I run a skimmerless 55 reef. All I have as far as mechanics go are 3 powerheads in the tank for flow. No sump, no fuge. Just T5's and weekly 2 gallon water change. I do use kalk (Mrs. Wages) and use the slurry method for application. Search "Slurry" to see what that's about (basically mix kalk in a cup of cold water and pour it in!) Do so at your own risk - works great for me! - quick and easy.


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  #22  
Old 09/29/2007, 04:00 PM
davidryder davidryder is offline
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There are drawbacks and positive aspects of a skimmerless tank. A skimmer pulls out all types of nutrients and starves things such as sponges, copepods, and other filter feeding inverts. However it also pulls out harmful nutrients that would otherwise be turned into nitrates or used for microalgaes.

That's one of the reasons you almost have to have a heavily stocked refugium on a skimmerless tank. I can keep almost any type of sponge and not only do I have a plethora of copepods, some of them are VERY large. Also mini brittle starfish and some variation of snails have shown up in my tank by the hundreds without any help from me.

However I use my 15g sump as a refugium and I have an external 25g refugium on display that circulates through the sump.

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  #23  
Old 09/29/2007, 07:32 PM
Alaska_Phil Alaska_Phil is offline
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Looks nice Davidryder, my 20 gal sort of combines the display and refugium into one tank. But I'm also amazed at the number of tiny critters that show up, from duster worms to pods.

Phil
  #24  
Old 09/29/2007, 08:00 PM
luke33 luke33 is offline
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Without a skimmer and without doing water changes look at it like the ocean without waves.
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  #25  
Old 09/29/2007, 08:07 PM
davidryder davidryder is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alaska_Phil
Looks nice Davidryder, my 20 gal sort of combines the display and refugium into one tank. But I'm also amazed at the number of tiny critters that show up, from duster worms to pods.

Phil
Thanks... I'm terrible at taking pictures - and plus my camera is a point and shoot digital so that makes it worse. I lost a lot to moving about 3 weeks ago but when I lost my yellow tang I replaced it with a kole and he has literally polished my rocks
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