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  #1  
Old 12/16/2005, 04:43 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Serious Disscussion of Zooanthids Growth

Hey..Zooanthids keepers out there..

I would like to have a serious disscussion on The growth rate of Zooanthids..


1: Which is the best way to Make Zooanthids Spread Rapidly (Fastest)?

2: IS it True that Placing them High up nearning to the MH will promote fast growth as well as spreading?

3: Does Feeding Zooanthids PROOVE accelerates Growth?

4: Does Fragging helps to speeds up the growth rarte?

5: Is it proven that Mild Current do help acclerate the growth over Weaker Current?

6:What Other Conditions will help Quicken The growth rate of the Zooanthis.at a fast speed..


Comments will be well apperciated
Thanks.
Merry X Mas.
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  #2  
Old 12/16/2005, 08:55 PM
MUCHO REEF MUCHO REEF is offline
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Wow, that is a great question. I can't believe no one is sharing their feelings and opinions on this.

Mooch
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  #3  
Old 12/16/2005, 08:57 PM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Hey there.Thanks....



I really would apperciate if Zoo's lover share their input..

hey Mooch, Why not you start first?
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  #4  
Old 12/16/2005, 09:07 PM
alexinfla alexinfla is offline
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Excellent questions for a REAL discussion. I've been working with them awhile so I'll share input tomorrow with more time.

But for now....the REAL lesson I've learned over the years is :

No matter what you do, the prettiest and most coveted will grow the slowest...all else being equal.

Happy Friday night!
  #5  
Old 12/16/2005, 09:15 PM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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HA, yeah well said.. alexinfla

I bascically think that its because we are stressing all the nice pieces out by watching them daily , always tend to change position and stuff. Unlike normal kinds which we just put a side and let them, start to weed.

Anw,I belive all else are the same , Just a matter of requirements i must say...


Do share with us more input if you do have,and yes.

Happy Friday Night to you too.
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  #6  
Old 12/17/2005, 04:11 AM
Snakebyt Snakebyt is offline
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I have not been doing it long enough to have any input, but i do have some that i have seen no growth from, and others that i have noticed alot of growth from. I think they are like other things in a reef, some "strains" are geneticly inclined to grow faster
  #7  
Old 12/17/2005, 04:40 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Got it Snakebyt .

Yeah ,its true that we need to do it long enough for some valueable INPUts which can hearby conclude the growth rate of zooanthids.

But , Even a small period of time can determind the growth rare if they are being ovserved and recoarded From time to time..


.................................................................................................... .....

What the Disscussion is all about is by

Discussing ways and points on how to improve growth rates of spreading.

The inside's out of the myth of spreading zooanthids.

THEre are sure Ways that affect zooanthids growth rares in our tank..

What are the ways?

We needa share.
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  #8  
Old 12/17/2005, 08:52 AM
66deuce 66deuce is offline
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In my experience..... questions 2-5 are true.
  #9  
Old 12/17/2005, 09:31 AM
fish1219 fish1219 is offline
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I have 2 different type of zoo's on 1 rock. 1 kind is moving/reproducing up the rock toward the light. The other kind is moving/reproducing down/away from the light. So I guess there is no real answer becuase it is dependant on what type of zoo's you have.
  #10  
Old 12/17/2005, 10:40 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 66deuce
In my experience..... questions 2-5 are true.
Hey there...Icee...Do you have any statement of proove to justify your explanation?

Pictures shows a million.


Thanks for the input anw...


Cheers.
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  #11  
Old 12/17/2005, 11:11 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by fish1219
I have 2 different type of zoo's on 1 rock. 1 kind is moving/reproducing up the rock toward the light. The other kind is moving/reproducing down/away from the light. So I guess there is no real answer becuase it is dependant on what type of zoo's you have.
True....But there sure be a reason for this too.

Hope to get as many reasons to justify as possible, after that we can complie all of them and take a look at them
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  #12  
Old 12/17/2005, 11:55 PM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Any Interesting findings? Please Share your inputs...

Really hope to hear more from you guys out there as a Zoo keeper.
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  #13  
Old 12/18/2005, 02:06 AM
jent46bow jent46bow is offline
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well I am not sure you can generalize it like that. IMO every zoa is diffrent. IME the bigger the polyp the faster they grow, also the uglyier the faster they grow. Some of mine love being up high in the tank. While another bunch barley grew at all till I moved them almost to the bottom. Always open and looking good, just some zoas like diffrent setting. I know I am not helping much but I just don't think you can say this formula equals this amount of growth.
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  #14  
Old 12/18/2005, 04:55 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jent46bow
well I am not sure you can generalize it like that. IMO every zoa is diffrent. IME the bigger the polyp the faster they grow, also the uglyier the faster they grow. Some of mine love being up high in the tank. While another bunch barley grew at all till I moved them almost to the bottom. Always open and looking good, just some zoas like diffrent setting. I know I am not helping much but I just don't think you can say this formula equals this amount of growth.

Right...Thanks for the input..

but wad actually are thre main causes for the advance growth of zoa ?

current? Light, few polypS?

As in the majority of most zoos?

Hope you get wad i mean.
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  #15  
Old 12/18/2005, 10:19 AM
CoralNutz CoralNutz is offline
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First off it's Zoanthid as oppesed to Zooanthid... I thought we just covered this a few threads back. (just kidding around)

I would love to join this conversation and I do indeed have lots of pictures and theories as to get the polyp:month ration up as high as I can. I think first we need to clarify, re we talking just zoanthids? Or are we including Protopalythoa and Palythoa as well. Because if we are, they are completely differnet beasts and all merrit their own discussion, IMO. People seem to lump these all together quite often, so I just want to clarify?
  #16  
Old 12/18/2005, 12:35 PM
whodah whodah is offline
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feeding
in my experience, some zoas 'react' to food, some 'eat' food (mostly palys), and others don't seem to even know i'm squirting them w/ food.

i'm not convinced that any of my zoas eat, but i am very convinced that some of my palys do.

exponential growth
another note, and it may seem obvious once stated, is that zoanthid growth is exponential. i.e. if you start w/ 2 polyps and grow a 3rd in 7 weeks, then you can carry that same logic out (roughly) to where if you had 20 polyps, you'd get roughly 10 more in the same time period.

furthermore, it seems to be at a greater exponential rate than just a simple multiplier factor. i.e. it seems to be more than just 1.5x the polyp count every y time period. i'm not gonna go try and find a differential equation to describe their growth, but it seems to be that you might get 1.5x the first y period, then 1.55x the second y period, then 1.6x the third y period, etc. until it levels off at some growth rate number.

i've noticed this to be pretty consistent while watching them grow. there are other factors, i.e. surface area adjacent to potential growth areas vs. the highly populated center of a colony, but you get the idea. (for the math and engineering peeps out there: assume the horse is a sphere! LOL)

so unfortunately, that logic lends itself to 'not fragging'. blasphemy! heehee!

so what do you do? frag or grow?

well, here's my game plan. not saying it's right or wrong, just what i do! if i've got a new colony or frag, after about 3 weeks of it being in my tank (to allow it to recoup from transport/fragging/new-tank-syndrome), i'll frag it and get it out to a couple of my key local trading buddies for backups. (they extend the same courtesy to me - a symbiotic relationship, ha ha!) then i'll let them grow to the unjustifiable number of 30 polyps. 30 polyps just seems like an aesthetically pleasing number of polyps to me when looking at zoas in my tank. it doesn't look like a 'frag' still, but not a colony either. once i'm at 30, i'll start fragging here and there for people as requested while 'slowly' letting my mother colony's numbers grow as well. remember - once yer at 30 polyps, yer growth is going to be much 'quicker' - or at least a higher quantity of polyps, not necessarily quicker.

so let's play out a year's worth of growth. numerically and chronologically, it would look something like:
  • day 1 - new frag of 6 polyps comes in. DIP IT!! heh
  • day 21 - (3 weeks since i've had them) perhaps 1 new polyp, frag it into 1 x 2 polyp and 1 x 5 polyp frags. get one in another tank!!!
  • day 70 - at ~ 8 polyps
  • day 119 - at ~ 13 polyps
  • day 168 - at ~21 polyps
  • day 217 - at ~32 polyps - frag a 5 polyp frag for someone, down to 27 polyps
  • day 266 - at ~ 40-42 polyps (depending how the colony reacted to the fragging) - frag a 5 polyp frag for someone, down to ~36 polyps
  • day 315 - at ~ 55 polyps - the surface area at which the zoas can spread out is large, but no 'center' growth as there's nowhere for the center polyps to grow! frag 2 x 5 polyp frags, down to 45 polyps
  • day 364 - at ~ 62 polyps, same growth restraints, frag 2 x 5 polyp frags, down to 52

so in ~ 3/4 year, i'm ready for fragging. after 1 years time, my mother colony is at ~52 polyps, and i've made a total of 7 frags. and after this mark, i'm making 2 frags per month and soon 3 polyp frags per month.

also - you noticed that i made mention of no 'center' growth as it's crowded out. this lends to more advanced fragging techniques involving fragging the middle of your colony and not just the edges. why? well, if you make frags in the middle of your colony, then the middle zoas have a place to grow too. thus, yer getting border growth and middle growth. it is a lot more work to frag in this manner though...

thoughts?
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  #17  
Old 12/18/2005, 01:09 PM
CoralNutz CoralNutz is offline
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Who Dah? I'm confused. Are you saying that if you have a the ratio of growth is going to stay roughly the same percentage bases on the amount of polyps?

IME, if your looking to grow out a nice colony, then patience is what you really need. If you are trying to get the most polyps/month. Then fragging them small is the key.

This is from another thread... Was to lazy to retype it......

Quote:
Originally posted by CoralNutz
It's been documented by lots of people that single baby polyps will produce polyps more rapidly when they are single then the colony, on a polyp per polyp basis.

Example. If you slice of a single polyp (I recomment full sized polyps) and glue it onto a piece of rubble or a frag plug. It's not uncommon for that one polyp so be surrounded by three more polyps within a month.

So for the 100 polyp colony to keep up with that growth rate of the single poylp frag, it would need to sprout 300 new polyps within a month, which isn't going to happen.

Anthony Calfo talks about this in his coral propagation book, but was mainly talking about LPS (blaso's) and how that if you take a single blasto polyp and frag it, it will grow new polyps quickly on all sides as a recovery method. But he noticed that the colonies tended to just sprout babies on the predomonent side of the colony and not all the way around.

On October 15th (or close anyway) I sliced off two polyps of these sweet reds. One Dec. 3rd I took the second pic.

So in 1.5 months the two polyps turned into 7. So if a colony of 100 were to keep this pace you if would have grown from 100 to 350 polyps, wouldn't that be something....


I am currently working on a flash demonstration for my website of this fragging theory. IME it is by far the fastest way to get polyps growing. When the frags are small. 1-3 polyps, the growth goes into overdrive for the next month till they hit about 10 polyps then it slows down a bit.

If your goal is to grow out a big colonie, then like I said, this doesn't help much. But if your like me and on the hunt for the largest, most bad arse polyp collection out there, this is the quickest way I have found to multiply them for trades, or sell them for money to buy other cool stuff.
  #18  
Old 12/18/2005, 01:19 PM
whodah whodah is offline
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CoralNutz - in essence, ya, that's what i was trying to say.

but after seeing what you just posted, i gotta say: woa - i need to pick up that book and try that technique!!
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  #19  
Old 12/18/2005, 01:35 PM
whodah whodah is offline
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i was just thinking: so to get the best of both worlds... a large mother colony and frags... whatcha think about fragging the middle of zoas?

2 or 3 polyps from the middle of your small mother colony. as it grows (slowly) to a full mother colony, yer producing small frags at high rates?

i'm really excited about what you posted CoralNutz, i dind't know that!! thx!
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  #20  
Old 12/18/2005, 01:36 PM
CoralNutz CoralNutz is offline
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The book is OK, not really what I was looking for. There were a few tidbits of helpful info in there. But most of it was common sense and not nearly enough info on indoor reef farming. I live up here in Da Minnesotaaah and we don't be having to many dem der greenhouses yah.

I just started working on my website and plan on having lots of information, pictures, video clips and flash tutorials all on coral propping info. Mainly zoas and paly's. But some LPS info too. Also plan on having some info on how to properly pack/ship zoas/paly's using different shipping methods. I have been trying LOTS of different methods fragging zoas/paly's.... Some ideas worked great. Some were miserable failures. But I plan to hopefuly help others to start propping corals, even if they can't have a dedicated prop setup I have seen some pretty sweet prop areas inside display tanks. Some guy even has some eggcrate hanging up over the back of his aqaurium and it's kind of behind the rockwork so when you look straight at it you don't really see the frag rack. But he has enough spaces in the little area for about 20 zoa frags at any givin time. Anyway, enough of my babbling.. What other ideas do you folks have?
  #21  
Old 12/19/2005, 08:41 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by CoralNutz
First off it's Zoanthid as oppesed to Zooanthid... I thought we just covered this a few threads back. (just kidding around)

I would love to join this conversation and I do indeed have lots of pictures and theories as to get the polyp:month ration up as high as I can. I think first we need to clarify, re we talking just zoanthids? Or are we including Protopalythoa and Palythoa as well. Because if we are, they are completely differnet beasts and all merrit their own discussion, IMO. People seem to lump these all together quite often, so I just want to clarify?
Hey coralNutz, The discussion here is all about zoanthids
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  #22  
Old 12/19/2005, 08:44 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by whodah
feeding
in my experience, some zoas 'react' to food, some 'eat' food (mostly palys), and others don't seem to even know i'm squirting them w/ food.

i'm not convinced that any of my zoas eat, but i am very convinced that some of my palys do.

exponential growth
another note, and it may seem obvious once stated, is that zoanthid growth is exponential. i.e. if you start w/ 2 polyps and grow a 3rd in 7 weeks, then you can carry that same logic out (roughly) to where if you had 20 polyps, you'd get roughly 10 more in the same time period.

furthermore, it seems to be at a greater exponential rate than just a simple multiplier factor. i.e. it seems to be more than just 1.5x the polyp count every y time period. i'm not gonna go try and find a differential equation to describe their growth, but it seems to be that you might get 1.5x the first y period, then 1.55x the second y period, then 1.6x the third y period, etc. until it levels off at some growth rate number.

i've noticed this to be pretty consistent while watching them grow. there are other factors, i.e. surface area adjacent to potential growth areas vs. the highly populated center of a colony, but you get the idea. (for the math and engineering peeps out there: assume the horse is a sphere! LOL)

so unfortunately, that logic lends itself to 'not fragging'. blasphemy! heehee!

so what do you do? frag or grow?

well, here's my game plan. not saying it's right or wrong, just what i do! if i've got a new colony or frag, after about 3 weeks of it being in my tank (to allow it to recoup from transport/fragging/new-tank-syndrome), i'll frag it and get it out to a couple of my key local trading buddies for backups. (they extend the same courtesy to me - a symbiotic relationship, ha ha!) then i'll let them grow to the unjustifiable number of 30 polyps. 30 polyps just seems like an aesthetically pleasing number of polyps to me when looking at zoas in my tank. it doesn't look like a 'frag' still, but not a colony either. once i'm at 30, i'll start fragging here and there for people as requested while 'slowly' letting my mother colony's numbers grow as well. remember - once yer at 30 polyps, yer growth is going to be much 'quicker' - or at least a higher quantity of polyps, not necessarily quicker.

so let's play out a year's worth of growth. numerically and chronologically, it would look something like:
  • day 1 - new frag of 6 polyps comes in. DIP IT!! heh
  • day 21 - (3 weeks since i've had them) perhaps 1 new polyp, frag it into 1 x 2 polyp and 1 x 5 polyp frags. get one in another tank!!!
  • day 70 - at ~ 8 polyps
  • day 119 - at ~ 13 polyps
  • day 168 - at ~21 polyps
  • day 217 - at ~32 polyps - frag a 5 polyp frag for someone, down to 27 polyps
  • day 266 - at ~ 40-42 polyps (depending how the colony reacted to the fragging) - frag a 5 polyp frag for someone, down to ~36 polyps
  • day 315 - at ~ 55 polyps - the surface area at which the zoas can spread out is large, but no 'center' growth as there's nowhere for the center polyps to grow! frag 2 x 5 polyp frags, down to 45 polyps
  • day 364 - at ~ 62 polyps, same growth restraints, frag 2 x 5 polyp frags, down to 52

so in ~ 3/4 year, i'm ready for fragging. after 1 years time, my mother colony is at ~52 polyps, and i've made a total of 7 frags. and after this mark, i'm making 2 frags per month and soon 3 polyp frags per month.

also - you noticed that i made mention of no 'center' growth as it's crowded out. this lends to more advanced fragging techniques involving fragging the middle of your colony and not just the edges. why? well, if you make frags in the middle of your colony, then the middle zoas have a place to grow too. thus, yer getting border growth and middle growth. it is a lot more work to frag in this manner though...

thoughts?
Great Input and findings...Really apperciate for your sharing

Hopefully there are more to come Thats wad i am requesting for

Thanks once again. Its a great start
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  #23  
Old 12/19/2005, 08:49 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by CoralNutz
The book is OK, not really what I was looking for. There were a few tidbits of helpful info in there. But most of it was common sense and not nearly enough info on indoor reef farming. I live up here in Da Minnesotaaah and we don't be having to many dem der greenhouses yah.

I just started working on my website and plan on having lots of information, pictures, video clips and flash tutorials all on coral propping info. Mainly zoas and paly's. But some LPS info too. Also plan on having some info on how to properly pack/ship zoas/paly's using different shipping methods. I have been trying LOTS of different methods fragging zoas/paly's.... Some ideas worked great. Some were miserable failures. But I plan to hopefuly help others to start propping corals, even if they can't have a dedicated prop setup I have seen some pretty sweet prop areas inside display tanks. Some guy even has some eggcrate hanging up over the back of his aqaurium and it's kind of behind the rockwork so when you look straight at it you don't really see the frag rack. But he has enough spaces in the little area for about 20 zoa frags at any givin time. Anyway, enough of my babbling.. What other ideas do you folks have?
Looking forward to it.
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  #24  
Old 12/19/2005, 10:47 AM
MUCHO REEF MUCHO REEF is offline
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I love to see a good debate and discussion like this. This is how we all mature as hobbyist through other reefers' opinions, findings and ideas.

With all due respect, I have to disagree. And just because we disagree, doesn't mean we can't be friends.

All zoos are not alike nor the same. The one common denominator that I have found with all of them is that they are extremely hardy and will adapt to most types of lighting. I can't see how the above theory of reproduction can possibly be true or consistantly true. If I and 4 other reefers did exactly what you did, do you think we would yield the same results exponentially? I would say no. Because no two system are the same. Tank variables/parameters/lighting/current etc and not the zoos themselves will determine growth and the rate of reproduction. It is impossible to say that consistantly you will have one new polyp in 3 weeks. Sometimes I get 5 in 3 weeks, other times I might get one. All things being equal, if you have a system with all parameters and conditions dialed in perfectly and consistantly, you should and could maintain steady growth, but you can't calculate growth this month based on growth last month or with other colonies or a schedule. All zoos and palys are not alike when it comes to reproduction.

Regarding food, we all know that zoos are Photosynthetic and will use lighting as their primary source of nutrient uptake. This alone will sustain them. Many years ago, before feeding zoos became so mainstream, I never once feed my zoos and I had some killer growth patterns. Feeding, in my unprofessional opinion, should be a secondary, not a primary source of nutrition. Will zoos survive without secondary ( external feeding ), Yes. Will the do slightly better by feeding them twice a week, most definitely over time. That can only be proven through physical observation, which is what I did earlier this year. I went 3 weeks without feeding and changed nothing else in my tank. Did my corals surive, yes. Did they appear healthy, yes. For the next 3 weeks, I fed a combination of Frozen Cyclop eez, ESV's Spray Dried Marine Phyto Plankton and Oyster Eggs. I focused on 5 colonies in one area as I did when I didn't fed for 3 weeks. The one thing I noticed was a healthier looking more full bodied physical appearance. Of the 5 colonies, I noticed 7 new polyps during the 3 week period without feeding. I had 13 new polyps total during the weeks I did feed. I regret not doing it multiple times to see if I could receive the same results. Now would that happen in someone else's tank, maybe, maybe not, since no two systems and their variables are the same.

I'm quoting verbatim from Eric B's book, page 187 "Zoanthus are highly dependant on their zooxanthellae -- rather than active feeding on Zooplankton- for energy"

"Many reports both in scientific and hobby literature claim that Zoanthus species do not exibit feeding responses to any prey. This is mostly true for typical zooplankton prey, but I have found that the right kind of food will elicit a standard prey-capture response"

I believe that zoos can, do and will feed, both day and night. I feed once a week during the day and once at night 3 days later. We often think that just because we don't physically see a prey-capture response, that our zoos do not actively feed. Zoos have a "SIPHONOGLYPH, or single mouth, which leads into the Gastrovascular cavity, which has vibrating cilia that assist in both feeding and water exchange within the polyp" page 177.

A mouth with a gastrovacular pouch or stomach, gives further merit to the fact that zoos can and will feed.

I can't speak for anyone else, but what I know to be consistantly true in my tank and those of my local reefmates with zoo dominated tanks is this. The factors that have yielded the best growth and expansion are strong but not overpowering alternating/random current, bright lighting, MH users with a good to high Par value, and a KH around 10, with stable and none flucuating parameters, have received moderate to above average growth/reproduction. I don't believe that secondary feeding is a must, its simply an added benefit which will be manifested by a slightly enhanced physical appearance over time.

In my opinion


3: Does Feeding Zooanthids PROOVE accelerates Growth? POSSIBLY

4: Does Fragging helps to speeds up the growth rarte? I HAVE NEVER READ NOR WITNESSED IT, DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T TRUE THOUGH.

5: Is it proven that Mild Current do help acclerate the growth over Weaker Current? MOST DEFINITELY, ENOUGH TO WIGGLE THE POLYPS BUT NOT OVERPOWERING THEM TO THE POINT WHERE THEY WILL RETRACT.

6:What Other Conditions will help Quicken The growth rate of the Zooanthis.at a fast speed.. STATED ABOVE, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, JUST LEAVING THEM ALONE AND NOT MOVING THEM AROUND. IT WILL ONLY IRRITATE THEM AND STUNT THEIR GROWTH.

Regarding rarity and growth, I have heard and read the debate for years that rare zoos and palys grow very slow, and that is why they are rare, NOT TRUE. Zoanthids, whether common or rare, grow/reproduce at different rates. To say all the rare zoos grow very slow, and that is why they are considered rare simply isn't true. I have some very common zoos that grow at a snails pace, then again, I have some extremely rare zoos that grow like weeds. I have even had to cut my photperiod back to 7 hours to stop the growth. Rarity is based on collection and availability, not growth rate.

Sorry for the long response. And I meant no harm or disrespect to anyone's opinions.

Big Mouth Mucho
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Last edited by MUCHO REEF; 12/19/2005 at 11:06 AM.
  #25  
Old 12/19/2005, 11:19 AM
giantbicycle giantbicycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MUCHO REEF
I love to see a good debate and discussion like this. This is how we all mature as hobbyist through other reefers' opinions, findings and ideas.

With all due respect, I have to disagree. And just because we disagree, doesn't mean we can't be friends.

All zoos are not alike nor the same. The one common denominator that I have found with all of them is that they are extremely hardy and will adapt to most types of lighting. I can't see how the above theory of reproduction can possibly be true or consistantly true. If I and 4 other reefers did exactly what you did, do you think we would yield the same results exponentially? I would say no. Because no two system are the same. Tank variables/parameters/lighting/current etc and not the zoos themselves will determine growth and the rate of reproduction. It is impossible to say that consistantly you will have one new polyp in 3 weeks. Sometimes I get 5 in 3 weeks, other times I might get one. All things being equal, if you have a system with all parameters and conditions dialed in perfectly and consistantly, you should and could maintain steady growth, but you can't calculate growth this month based on growth last month or with other colonies or a schedule. All zoos and palys are not alike when it comes to reproduction.

Regarding food, we all know that zoos are Photosynthetic and will use lighting as their primary source of nutrient uptake. This alone will sustain them. Many years ago, before feeding zoos became so mainstream, I never once feed my zoos and I had some killer growth patterns. Feeding, in my unprofessional opinion, should be a secondary, not a primary source of nutrition. Will zoos survive without secondary ( external feeding ), Yes. Will the do slightly better by feeding them twice a week, most definitely over time. That can only be proven through physical observation, which is what I did earlier this year. I went 3 weeks without feeding and changed nothing else in my tank. Did my corals surive, yes. Did they appear healthy, yes. For the next 3 weeks, I fed a combination of Frozen Cyclop eez, ESV's Spray Dried Marine Phyto Plankton and Oyster Eggs. I focused on 5 colonies in one area as I did when I didn't fed for 3 weeks. The one thing I noticed was a healthier looking more full bodied physical appearance. Of the 5 colonies, I noticed 7 new polyps during the 3 week period without feeding. I had 13 new polyps total during the weeks I did feed. I regret not doing it multiple times to see if I could receive the same results. Now would that happen in someone else's tank, maybe, maybe not, since no two systems and their variables are the same.

I'm quoting verbatim from Eric B's book, page 187 "Zoanthus are highly dependant on their zooxanthellae -- rather than active feeding on Zooplankton- for energy"

"Many reports both in scientific and hobby literature claim that Zoanthus species do not exibit feeding responses to any prey. This is mostly true for typical zooplankton prey, but I have found that the right kind of food will elicit a standard prey-capture response"

I believe that zoos can, do and will feed, both day and night. I feed once a week during the day and once at night 3 days later. We often think that just because we don't physically see a prey-capture response, that our zoos do not actively feed. Zoos have a "SIPHONOGLYPH, or single mouth, which leads into the Gastrovascular cavity, which has vibrating cilia that assist in both feeding and water exchange within the polyp" page 177.

A mouth with a gastrovacular pouch or stomach, gives further merit to the fact that zoos can and will feed.

I can't speak for anyone else, but what I know to be consistantly true in my tank and those of my local reefmates with zoo dominated tanks is this. The factors that have yielded the best growth and expansion are strong but not overpowering alternating/random current, bright lighting, MH users with a good to high Par value, and a KH around 10, with stable and none flucuating parameters, have received moderate to above average growth/reproduction. I don't believe that secondary feeding is a must, its simply an added benefit which will be manifested by a slightly enhanced physical appearance over time.

In my opinion


3: Does Feeding Zooanthids PROOVE accelerates Growth? POSSIBLY

4: Does Fragging helps to speeds up the growth rarte? I HAVE NEVER READ NOR WITNESSED IT, DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T TRUE THOUGH.

5: Is it proven that Mild Current do help acclerate the growth over Weaker Current? MOST DEFINITELY, ENOUGH TO WIGGLE THE POLYPS BUT NOT OVERPOWERING THEM TO THE POINT WHERE THEY WILL RETRACT.

6:What Other Conditions will help Quicken The growth rate of the Zooanthis.at a fast speed.. STATED ABOVE, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, JUST LEAVING THEM ALONE AND NOT MOVING THEM AROUND. IT WILL ONLY IRRITATE THEM AND STUNT THEIR GROWTH.

Regarding rarity and growth, I have heard and read the debate for years that rare zoos and palys grow very slow, and that is why they are rare, NOT TRUE. Zoanthids, whether common or rare, grow/reproduce at different rates. To say all the rare zoos grow very slow, and that is why they are considered rare simply isn't true. I have some very common zoos that grow at a snails pace, then again, I have some extremely rare zoos that grow like weeds. I have even had to cut my photperiod back to 7 hours to stop the growth. Rarity is based on collection and availability, not growth rate.

Sorry for the long response. And I meant no harm or disrespect to anyone's opinions.

Big Mouth Mucho
Thanks for THIS BIG AND USEFUL input...Sorry for the caps but i was totally astonished by the feedback given compared to your first reply A big thank to you and i agree greatly with wad you input .

Firstly i would like to say again(Quoted from above)
<< that Rarity is truely based on collection and availability, not growth rate.>>

I agree on that ..

And lastly , you need not appologise as I LOVE YOu Being Big Mouth.
__________________
EDWAN
 

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