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  #26  
Old 12/10/2007, 09:22 AM
dendro982 dendro982 is offline
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Thank you!
I'll try to increase flow, and may be later set a nano with using distilled water for dissolving salt mix (so far it is conditioned tap water, too big volumes of water change ), and even with oversized skimmer and daily changed micron socks, I have moderate nitrates.

Why I asked - other corals are doing good, only sclero is different. May be more sensitive to water quality, like shrimps larvae, that survived in artificial salt water only after it was run through the activated carbon.

Checked Hatchfry - not available in usual sources, only dried Cyclop-eeze. Will check other provinces.
  #27  
Old 12/17/2007, 12:07 PM
dendro982 dendro982 is offline
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Me again: is this white gorgonian non-photosynthetic or not?



Relative size:

everybody is alive, only chromises are stressed by clown.

If memory serves right, this was sold as starburst gorgonian.

Shape of colony:
I was told, that it arrived as tangled mass of individual branches. Clump looks like half-dead rotten gorgonian, but as you see, they are perfectly alive.

Appearance:
Pure white with orange sponge on it (or seems so). Long, thin, not rigid (doesn't stand upright). Ends of branches are curving.

Polyps:
Octocorallia - 8 tentacles. The shape of polyps looks to me as non-photosynthetic one, only inequal feathering differs. Large polyps grow on the branch under 45-60 degree angle, in pairs, alternating in 90 degree planes. Not fully retractable.

I already asked about ID - no answers, no information on the web by this name either.

As I understand, zooxanthellae-containing tissue should be tan- or brownish colored.

Any information? Thanks.
  #28  
Old 12/17/2007, 01:23 PM
dannyfromholland dannyfromholland is offline
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Hi Dendro

I have no ID but if the orange stuff is sponge its most likely to be non-photo.

BTW aren't you afraid that the lionfish will eat your other small fishes?
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  #29  
Old 12/18/2007, 08:15 AM
dendro982 dendro982 is offline
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Chromises and damsel were bought as a salt-water diet for a previous mombasa lionfish, when it stopped eating. These lions strongly prefer shrimp, unless have no other choice.

For comparison:
- 2 chromises were eaten by the first lion, then it was starved, but it didn't pay attention to them later;
- 1 chromis was eaten by this lion, after 5 days of starvation during weaning,
- 4 or 5 were lost in a separate tank to the internal disagreement between chromises (they attack each other, as you know), and 1 was damaged by clown (it bites really hard).

Keeping unweaned predators is cruel, I know. But I reduced number of tanks, and all fish went in the same tank, half of year already there.

Back to the gorgonian - any hint on what it can be? Other, than non-photosynthetic one.
The orange growth looks like sponge to me, but I don't see circular openings. Some other branches in LFS didn't have this.

Also, any summary on keeping non-photosynthetic gorgonians is welcome (from own experience, of course). Did anyone had seen them growing in size? What was done for this?
  #30  
Old 12/18/2007, 11:43 PM
dendro982 dendro982 is offline
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Accidentally found, what it is: Carijoa riisei, or Snowflake coral.

Subclass: Octocarallia/Alcyonaria
Order: Gorgonacea
Suborder: Stolonifera
Family: Clavulariidae

Non-photosynthetic, but not gorgonian, just as syphonogorgia is - but what a resemblance!

Links:
Guide, Athlantic, Toonen et al. about distribution, "almost always covered with a very thinly encrusting orange-red sponge, which was identified as Desmapsamma anchorata" and "attaches using stolons (root like structures)"- this is present too - quotes from Invasive species DB.

Laboratory culture description, it's grows fast and reproduces, but in natural seawater tanks, fed twice a day by usual big polyped gorgonians food.

No cross-sections or skeleton data are available, other, than " lack a stiff axial skeleton. (The central skeleton of Carijoa is weak and undeveloped compared to gorgonians in general). " - from thesis , pdf.

Influence of the sponge presence on the pattern of growth - here.

One more on the list of non-photosynthetic corals
  #31  
Old 12/22/2007, 09:23 AM
dendro982 dendro982 is offline
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Me again: Does anybody cuts the dead bare ends of the gorgonians branches (new corals), and do they really become covered by new tissue in a day or so?
  #32  
Old 12/24/2007, 02:21 PM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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"disagreement between chromises (they attack each other, as you know)"

Man, I just can't get pass the way to treat your fish. Did you know your chromis will not attack each other if feed properly? Yes, it is cruel and to make your other fish have to live in fear - now that is cruel. Reefing is all about planning and being responsible - IMO. Sorry just can't get pass your statement above.
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  #33  
Old 12/24/2007, 03:11 PM
Gary Majchrzak Gary Majchrzak is offline
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this is a great thread- let's keep it on topic!

Swiftia is by no means an easy gorgonian to maintain let alone the others being listed here as more difficult.
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  #34  
Old 12/25/2007, 10:54 AM
dendro982 dendro982 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReefArtist
I just can't get pass the way to treat your fish. Did you know your chromis will not attack each other if feed properly? Yes, it is cruel and to make your other fish have to live in fear - now that is cruel. Reefing is all about planning and being responsible - IMO. Sorry just can't get pass your statement above.
Nobody else to put down?
Merry Chistmas, nice and responsible person!

Note, that I'm not eating, biting or harassing the fish. I know, that this is an option - return fish in LFS. Clown - for harassing and biting tankmates, chromises - for being harassed, lionfish - just for being lionfish, to a sure death there. This will be more humanly.
And it is really nice to assume, that anyone but you feeds chromises not properly. Not the case.
Do you know, that chromises kill each other - and these are not an isolated cases: Success with schools of chromis , 'IBS' routine... Isolate, Bully, Starve (middle of the page).
OK, no more pictures, and I'm considering taking return to LFS way.
  #35  
Old 12/25/2007, 11:18 AM
Gary Majchrzak Gary Majchrzak is offline
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for those reading this thread that are successfully maintaining non-photosynthetic gorgonians long term can you please describe the water movement/flow in your aquarium and also how you are providing it (closed loop, Tunze stream etc.) and what GPH. Thank you.
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some common aquarium nuisances: Bryopsis,Derbesia(hair algae),Cyanobacteria(red slime), Diatoms(golden brown algae), Dinoflagellates(gooey air bubbles),Valonia (bubble algae)
  #36  
Old 01/06/2008, 02:53 PM
Stottlemire Stottlemire is offline
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My reef tank has 4 large pumps at one end on the multi controller. Growing goronians is not hard, it is a lot of food and pump flow. I have video of my Swiftia spawning in my system.

Chuck
  #37  
Old 01/06/2008, 05:35 PM
dendro982 dendro982 is offline
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Photos of flow and filtration, please? For all of us.
  #38  
Old 01/06/2008, 06:40 PM
Stottlemire Stottlemire is offline
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They are the photos that mogandy aka amy has been posting. I think the site was twilight reefs.
  #39  
Old 01/06/2008, 07:02 PM
dendro982 dendro982 is offline
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I had seen it, more photos of really nice corals, then about setup and maintenance. I'm not ungrateful, but really would like to know more
 

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