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  #1  
Old 01/09/2008, 07:52 PM
Sydney Stahl Sydney Stahl is offline
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Location: Williams Lake, B.C.
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Unhappy Moving to Brasil, want to take my seahorses with me

Well,

My husband and I are seriously looking at moving to Brasil .

I am wondering if anyone knows how I can transport my 4 seahorses and my baby cowfish to Brasil, with us.

I will have their tank ready and waiting for their arrival. Obviously I am concerned about them getting there safe and sound .

Ideally I am hoping I can get special permission to carry them onboard our flight, with me, but since you can't even take a bottle of water onboard with you, I have my doubts .

I am hoping someone with experience transporting fish, could give me some advice.
  #2  
Old 01/09/2008, 08:03 PM
justinpsmith justinpsmith is offline
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I had a real bad experience once. I was moving from Florida to Canada and wanted to bring my 4 year old Puffer with me. The airline had told me it should be no problem, that I just needed to fill out paper work at the airport and to come early. Long story short, I was not allowed to take him and had to choose between leaving him at the airport with customs or missing my flight which I could not do...I have no idea what happened to him I called to try to find out once I landed but I never got an answer...Im not sure about going to Brazil but if you are travelling through the US to get there or Mexico, I doubt it is possible without permits and you for sure will not be able to take them to your seat, gauranteed. They are not allowing ANY exceptions. They just barely let my fiance take her asthma puffer with her after making her take a puff.
  #3  
Old 01/09/2008, 08:12 PM
Sydney Stahl Sydney Stahl is offline
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Hey Justin,

Sorry to hear about your awful experience!!! That really sucks! Thankfully our flight is Vancouver, Toronto then direct to Brasil, so we won't be flying through the states.
  #4  
Old 01/09/2008, 08:17 PM
bennyinca bennyinca is offline
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sorry, no exp in moving livestock overseas,
but... I think you can get really nice seahorses in Brasil
  #5  
Old 01/09/2008, 10:27 PM
gunslinger gunslinger is offline
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Is it possible to ship them to some one there. If you over night them you will beat them there and can care care of them the right way.
Kevin
  #6  
Old 01/10/2008, 12:12 AM
Sydney Stahl Sydney Stahl is offline
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Location: Williams Lake, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger
Is it possible to ship them to some one there. If you over night them you will beat them there and can care care of them the right way.
Kevin
If I knew what company could overnight them, my problem would be solved! If you know of a company that can do this, let me know. I have friends who could receive them there, or for that matter I could receive them there myself and have a friend on this end ship them to me.
  #7  
Old 01/10/2008, 12:28 AM
Nicholas89 Nicholas89 is offline
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Yeah, I would defiantly try shipping them before being the airline thing..
  #8  
Old 01/10/2008, 01:33 AM
barjam barjam is offline
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Quote:
Sorry to hear about your awful experience!!! That really sucks! Thankfully our flight is Vancouver, Toronto then direct to Brasil, so we won't be flying through the states.
That is a sad statement. Land of the free indeed

Good luck on your move! Everytime I have moved I have just sold the fish local.... I figure the odds of them making it were pretty slim.
  #9  
Old 01/10/2008, 01:35 AM
justinpsmith justinpsmith is offline
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I agree with shipping. Just do not get yourself into a situation like mine...I still get upset thinking about it and its been 3 years! I was pretty attached to that big guy and it is horrible not knowing what customs would have done with him.

I had a friend send me a juvenile Porc Puffer last year and we just did it through an over night service...I think it was UPS but I don't remember for sure. All he did was have a LFS package the puffer for me in really huge bags that were tripled up and filled with pure oxygen and then put into one of those white styrofoam (sp.) coolers with a few heat packs. Then wrapped it in thick brown paper and packing tape. Huge lettering that said fragile, this side up and something about not getting cold. Nothing about fish and I don't think they ever knew it was fish. The puffer arrived in great shape but seahorses may be a bit more sensitive. Also who knows how customs will be with importing. They will most likely open the package before it can enter and that could be bad. I have been to Brazil a long time ago and they were super tight at customs because they get lots of drugs through there.

Another thing though is that there are some of the most beautiful Seahorses from Brazil. The ones Im thinking of are quite large and quite green. VERY stunning seahorses. But I understand if its because you have a connection with the ones you have and want to take them...
  #10  
Old 01/10/2008, 01:54 AM
Hormigaquatica Hormigaquatica is offline
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You can pack up your fish in a styrofoam cooler-type thing within a cardboard box, bagged in medical oxygen, with a few hand warmers put in to keep the temp reasonable, then just check them on your flight with whatever other luggage you may have. Remember, your fish were flown to you in the exact same way from wherever they were collected. We do it at work virtually every day- if you pack carefully, dead fish are exceedingly rare.
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  #11  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:21 AM
Sydney Stahl Sydney Stahl is offline
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Location: Williams Lake, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hormigaquatica
You can pack up your fish in a styrofoam cooler-type thing within a cardboard box, bagged in medical oxygen, with a few hand warmers put in to keep the temp reasonable, then just check them on your flight with whatever other luggage you may have. Remember, your fish were flown to you in the exact same way from wherever they were collected. We do it at work virtually every day- if you pack carefully, dead fish are exceedingly rare.
Do you mean as carry on luggage or as checked luggage? What about the screening of checked luggage?Will they open the box to inspect and then not allow the package to be sent? I couldn't bear the thought of my poor ponies and my baby cowfish ending up sitting in some corner of a warehouse as rejected shipping items
  #12  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:22 AM
Sydney Stahl Sydney Stahl is offline
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Where did your friend send you the puffer from?

Quote:
Originally posted by justinpsmith
I agree with shipping. Just do not get yourself into a situation like mine...I still get upset thinking about it and its been 3 years! I was pretty attached to that big guy and it is horrible not knowing what customs would have done with him.

I had a friend send me a juvenile Porc Puffer last year and we just did it through an over night service...I think it was UPS but I don't remember for sure. All he did was have a LFS package the puffer for me in really huge bags that were tripled up and filled with pure oxygen and then put into one of those white styrofoam (sp.) coolers with a few heat packs. Then wrapped it in thick brown paper and packing tape. Huge lettering that said fragile, this side up and something about not getting cold. Nothing about fish and I don't think they ever knew it was fish. The puffer arrived in great shape but seahorses may be a bit more sensitive. Also who knows how customs will be with importing. They will most likely open the package before it can enter and that could be bad. I have been to Brazil a long time ago and they were super tight at customs because they get lots of drugs through there.

Another thing though is that there are some of the most beautiful Seahorses from Brazil. The ones Im thinking of are quite large and quite green. VERY stunning seahorses. But I understand if its because you have a connection with the ones you have and want to take them...
  #13  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:36 AM
Hormigaquatica Hormigaquatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sydney Stahl
Do you mean as carry on luggage or as checked luggage? What about the screening of checked luggage?Will they open the box to inspect and then not allow the package to be sent? I couldn't bear the thought of my poor ponies and my baby cowfish ending up sitting in some corner of a warehouse as rejected shipping items
Sorry, I mean checked luggage- Id be surprised if they would allow you to bring that kind of package as a carry on.

The airports do indeed check a lot of your checked luggage- but not all of it. We get boxes all the time that are closed up with airport security tape, but never any damage to the bags inside. Just use clear bags so they can see whats in there without popping them open.

One thing to keep in mind- you really need to check into whether or not you need shipping permits since its 'livestock'. I know all living things that are shipped into the US must have a permit- Im sure Brazil has some kind of similar requirements, especially since it has a lot of unique natural resources to protect.
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  #14  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:58 AM
justinpsmith justinpsmith is offline
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Oh sorry...it was just local in Canada, thats what I meant about it being much harder to get livestock to Brazil. Its not hard to ship the fish and they should make the trip fine but its a matter of it you are allowed to. You really just need to find that out.
  #15  
Old 01/10/2008, 03:06 AM
justinpsmith justinpsmith is offline
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I am interested in this so I called my brother just now (hes a biologist who has been to Brasil for work before) and you most likely need to deal with IBAMA (Intituto Brasileiro de Meio Ambiente)...One of the big obstacles will be declaring it is "non-pathogenic" he said. Sounds like they are VERY VERY strict in Brasil. He had a hard time bring DNA tissue samples back from there and not because of Canada but because Brasil did not want them to leave. His advice was to try dealing with them but he thought it may not be worth the hassle. Apparently they can be very difficult. Another thing he thought was that CITES will be needed from both ends (Brazil and Canada), if the Seahorses are on a CITES Appendix, which he said he is very sure they are. Hope something there helps.

Good luck!
  #16  
Old 01/10/2008, 03:12 AM
wcpeixoto wcpeixoto is offline
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Sydney,

Welcome to Brazil. Hope you have a nice stay here. Which city are you moving to ?

Concerning your animals, I strongly recommend you do not bring them. Even you can fly with them (which is not easy) you will probably have issues with brazilian federal customs at airport and they will not let you take in your animals without a permission which is really hard to get due burocracy (yeah, get use to it). Too much risk. Let them with someone that loves these animals in Canada and get new ones here.

If you are considering keeping a tank in Brazil also bring as much equipments as possible, everything is more expensive here (eletric equip must be 60hz).

I live in Sao Paulo and fell free to email me (wesley.cunha@terra.com.br) if I can help in anything else you need.
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  #17  
Old 01/10/2008, 03:37 AM
GreshamH GreshamH is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by justinpsmith
if the Seahorses are on a CITES Appendix, which he said he is very sure they are. Hope something there helps.
The are in fact CITES Appendix II, just like stoney corals.
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  #18  
Old 01/10/2008, 03:42 AM
justinpsmith justinpsmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by GreshamH
The are in fact CITES Appendix II, just like stoney corals.
Yeah I thought so...just did not want to say for sure without knowing and then be wrong
  #19  
Old 01/10/2008, 09:47 AM
Sydney Stahl Sydney Stahl is offline
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Location: Williams Lake, B.C.
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Hi Wesley,
I kinda figured as much. I was hoping I might find a way to get them there, though. I hate the idea of parting with my little ponies and my crouton (well, I guess he's larger than a crouton now!)

You mentioned not bringing animals. I assume you mean the seahorses and my little cowfish? I have been doing research on bringing my Newfoundland dog and my cat to Brasil and the consulate says as long as I have my vets certificate in order it will be no problem. Leaving him behind is not an option....he is like my child.

What is the cost of seahorses there? Also, have you seen cowfish for sale there? Do you have the names of any good fish stores in Sao Paulo or San Jose Dos Campos? We are considering Caraguatatuba as our home base.

Thanks for the heads up on equipment. I am planning on bringing my Schuran Jetskim 200, Arcadia 2x 250watt metal halide hood, my ASM G3, Schuran Calcium reactor and many other equipment items. The only thing I won't be bringing are my tanks. How expensive are tanks there? Get you get the Red Sea Max or something similar? What are costs of tanks there? What about fish and corals?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just excited to find a fellow reefer in the same area that we will be moving to!!!!


Quote:
Originally posted by wcpeixoto
Sydney,

Welcome to Brazil. Hope you have a nice stay here. Which city are you moving to ?

Concerning your animals, I strongly recommend you do not bring them. Even you can fly with them (which is not easy) you will probably have issues with brazilian federal customs at airport and they will not let you take in your animals without a permission which is really hard to get due burocracy (yeah, get use to it). Too much risk. Let them with someone that loves these animals in Canada and get new ones here.

If you are considering keeping a tank in Brazil also bring as much equipments as possible, everything is more expensive here (eletric equip must be 60hz).

I live in Sao Paulo and fell free to email me (wesley.cunha@terra.com.br) if I can help in anything else you need.
  #20  
Old 01/10/2008, 09:53 AM
Sydney Stahl Sydney Stahl is offline
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Location: Williams Lake, B.C.
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Thanks Jason....I think in my heart I know I shouldn't try to take them, for their own good, but I really hate to leave them behind

I was hoping since suppliers are able to ship them around the world, perhaps I could get them to Brasil in the same method.

Quote:
Originally posted by justinpsmith
I am interested in this so I called my brother just now (hes a biologist who has been to Brasil for work before) and you most likely need to deal with IBAMA (Intituto Brasileiro de Meio Ambiente)...One of the big obstacles will be declaring it is "non-pathogenic" he said. Sounds like they are VERY VERY strict in Brasil. He had a hard time bring DNA tissue samples back from there and not because of Canada but because Brasil did not want them to leave. His advice was to try dealing with them but he thought it may not be worth the hassle. Apparently they can be very difficult. Another thing he thought was that CITES will be needed from both ends (Brazil and Canada), if the Seahorses are on a CITES Appendix, which he said he is very sure they are. Hope something there helps.

Good luck!
  #21  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:50 PM
wcpeixoto wcpeixoto is offline
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Sydney,

Yes, I was talking about marine life. I dont think you will have any problems bringing your dog and cat with the propper documents. Me or my wife wouldnt consider leave our bullterrier behind either, even if we were moving to moon...

Seahorses here costs about US$ 30,00 and are easy to find. Imported cowfishes are available sometimes, but not always. Best shot is pre-order one from a trustable LFS which can order it specific for you. May take a couple months but you get it. Dont know any store in S J Campos, but I believe there are some. Post a thread in a local forum (IPAQ - www.ipaq.org.br or Reecorner - www.reefcorner.org) and someone will inform you about shops around (you can post in english). But best is to came to Sao Paulo sometimes, best stores are here. There are also online stores that can ship for you.

You can get Red Sea Max here. More expensive than in CA but if you have all other equipments wont hurt that much. Glass made tanks are not expensive, just make sure to order from a trustable store (I would stay with Red Sea Max if the size fits for you). I recommend Fishland (www.fishland.com.br). Talk to Ricardo Rio which is the owner. Very nice guy. He lived in San Diego for a year, so language should not be a problem. It is one of the best LFS here.

Fish and corals are also available, but more expensive and in less availability than USA, specially top SPS and australian frags. You also can get cheaper and nice frags at Foruns and make new friends in the process...

Fell free to make as many questions as you wish. You will find out that we brazilian are a very friendly people. There are many reefers here, you wont be alone !...

I have a very close cousin that lives in Vancouver, and his wife is from Caraguatatuba (her father still lives there). If you need any input Im sure they will be very happy to help you. Just let me know and I put you guys in contact.


Quote:
Originally posted by Sydney Stahl
Hi Wesley,
I kinda figured as much. I was hoping I might find a way to get them there, though. I hate the idea of parting with my little ponies and my crouton (well, I guess he's larger than a crouton now!)

You mentioned not bringing animals. I assume you mean the seahorses and my little cowfish? I have been doing research on bringing my Newfoundland dog and my cat to Brasil and the consulate says as long as I have my vets certificate in order it will be no problem. Leaving him behind is not an option....he is like my child.

What is the cost of seahorses there? Also, have you seen cowfish for sale there? Do you have the names of any good fish stores in Sao Paulo or San Jose Dos Campos? We are considering Caraguatatuba as our home base.

Thanks for the heads up on equipment. I am planning on bringing my Schuran Jetskim 200, Arcadia 2x 250watt metal halide hood, my ASM G3, Schuran Calcium reactor and many other equipment items. The only thing I won't be bringing are my tanks. How expensive are tanks there? Get you get the Red Sea Max or something similar? What are costs of tanks there? What about fish and corals?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just excited to find a fellow reefer in the same area that we will be moving to!!!!
__________________
Wesley

Last edited by wcpeixoto; 01/10/2008 at 02:56 PM.
  #22  
Old 01/10/2008, 03:44 PM
maroun.c maroun.c is offline
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I recently moved back from Dubai and on my way out I wanted to take some corals with me.
I ws told that in the case of hard corals I needed a CITES fromt he store I got them from I only had soft corals so did not need it. I Beleive your LFS would have CITES license if they're importing seahorses so they just give youa copy of it.
I also needed a health certificate so i could get a vet to go examine the items and give me a certificate which I would take to the airport office to get a health certificate in order to eb able to introduce them with me.
I jus took the corals in a cooler box with em to the airport and the vet checked them all in there withouth opeining the bags though to check they were all soft corals and looked fine. got the health certificate which I covered in adhesive nylone and taped on the cooler. I also wrote my name and mobile number in case it was opened and if they had any enquiries they would call me hopefully. Inside the box I wrote on a paper Living aquarium decorative items please do not allow to get cold and reclose box after check for any question call me or contact airport vet XXXX.
I wrapped the cooler with adhesive nylon and covered it with towels to absorb any leak. at check in I wrapped my bag to avoid water leaking out of it in case something happens, labelled it as fragile checked it in. I picked it up at arrival and the bag was not opened. I also checked bags full of corals not in coolers this time, while flying back from holland and the bags were not opened but most of the corals arrived crushed and water was leaking out of my bag. Guess it much easier not to take them with you if you can find other ones but if they are special to you then do it. just make sure to contact the airport and somehow try to contact the authorities where you are going to learn if there are special permits to get.
  #23  
Old 01/10/2008, 04:48 PM
justinpsmith justinpsmith is offline
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Im not sure about Brasil but in a lot of countries, you have to quarantine your dog for a few months. I know my dad just moved to Singapore and its a 3 month QT! Look into that too...
 

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