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  #1  
Old 08/10/2007, 02:36 AM
JohnL JohnL is offline
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This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...8#post10521028
  #2  
Old 08/10/2007, 02:36 AM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThaNgBOm321
why not replace the 'knock off' with the real one??? a or2500 or or3500???

ohh.. just got home and checked up on the rps-3000... all i have to say is wow!!! wet skimming like mad!!!!! need to find it's sweet spot now... ohh but 1st... i have 3 layers of pf4 in the old style nw.. i left one row on and then 3 layers on top... cut it to the same size as the nw... i think i wanna cut it ( pf4) back some if it will lower my wattage... only thing is that i dont have a meter.. so anyone have a rough estimate as to have much to trim off to get lower wattege and not lose all the air???


YzGyz
The OR seem to have a lot of flow for the air they put out...I'd like to upgrade to something more reliable and better performing.


You'll really need to get a kill-a-watt to even know wether you need to trim the mesh back. How do you figure you need to lower the watts if you don't know what they are?
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  #3  
Old 08/10/2007, 10:39 AM
davidabrown66 davidabrown66 is offline
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I've been messing around with a Gen-x 4100 on my DNW-200, and I have to say that it has potential if you're running it externally (no rust). The best I've been able to get is around 30 SCFH, but others have gotten even better results. What I like the best about it, is that it moves less water to get these numbers = less turbulance. The down side is that they may be a bit noisier, and the mods have to be perfectly executed to see the improvement.

I still love the OTP-3000 for doing the mods, b/c of the larger volute, and the head room for improvements that can be had. The Gen-x has some head room for mods, but not like the OTP-3000.

We can't forget though, that we are overdriving these pumps and these factors will contribute to over heating and shorter pump life not to mention that it'll be much more prevelent during the summer time. I'm on my second pump, b/c the first one started to decrease in output after about 3 months of use, and I couldn't get above 25 SCFH.
  #4  
Old 08/10/2007, 11:57 AM
SlowCobra SlowCobra is offline
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Dont end up like me when modding though!

While all is well now, I got a little over-zealous and said to my self..."self, that still looks a bit too small" Stupid me.


As you can see from the yummy pictures and the short time frame it appears to be working fairly well after some Macgyver skills.
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  #5  
Old 08/10/2007, 01:42 PM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by davidabrown66
...We can't forget though, that we are overdriving these pumps and these factors will contribute to over heating and shorter pump life not to mention that it'll be much more prevelent during the summer time. I'm on my second pump, b/c the first one started to decrease in output after about 3 months of use, and I couldn't get above 25 SCFH.
If you do it right you are not overdriving the pump at all. That's why you buy a kill-a-watt meter. The pump was running at exactly the same watts and PF that it was out of the box....it was not being overdriven!! They are just poorly built pumps...I'm not knocking them, but even the OR's they are copied from aren't really an efficient pump...and China has a way of building things crappier than the original

I'm still leaning tioeard the ER Sedra 3500 as the replacement pump. I can put it on the skimmer and not have to mod the pump at all and it'l skim well. I'm saving the DIY skills for the big skimmer I'm working on
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  #6  
Old 08/10/2007, 01:56 PM
RichConley RichConley is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by davidabrown66
[B

We can't forget though, that we are overdriving these pumps and these factors will contribute to over heating and shorter pump life not to mention that it'll be much more prevelent during the summer time. I'm on my second pump, b/c the first one started to decrease in output after about 3 months of use, and I couldn't get above 25 SCFH. [/B]
No, we're not.


If you're modding them properly, and using a killawatt and a flowmeter, it will be pulling SIGNIFICANTLY LESS WATTAGE.


Quote:
They are just poorly built pumps...I'm not knocking them, but even the OR's they are copied from aren't really an efficient pump
Since when? ORs are way more efficient than Eheim, Sedra, GenX, Mags, etc. The only pump theyre not more efficient than is the QuietOnes.
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Last edited by RichConley; 08/10/2007 at 02:03 PM.
  #7  
Old 08/10/2007, 02:03 PM
RichConley RichConley is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCTewks
he replacement pump. I can put it on the skimmer and not have to mod the pump at all and it'l skim well. I'm saving the DIY skills for the big skimmer I'm working on
And pull about 10 scfh.
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  #8  
Old 08/10/2007, 02:10 PM
luke33 luke33 is offline
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Genx4100

Quote:
Originally posted by davidabrown66
I've been messing around with a Gen-x 4100 on my DNW-200, and I have to say that it has potential if you're running it externally (no rust). The best I've been able to get is around 30 SCFH, but others have gotten even better results. What I like the best about it, is that it moves less water to get these numbers = less turbulance. The down side is that they may be a bit noisier, and the mods have to be perfectly executed to see the improvement.

David, i got the genx4100 up to around 45scfh before i decided i didn't like the pump at all and there were much better options out there. I have a sicce suprema pump that is about half the size of teh genx4100 and at 55watts. Stock it'll pull 30scfh, and with three layers and just holding up 1/4" tube it'll pull 40scfh. I'm sure its at around 35 watts as well. Once i get some time i'll see what i can get. I'm guessing over 55scfh and 30ish watts.
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  #9  
Old 08/10/2007, 05:24 PM
porthios porthios is offline
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'Stock it'll pull 30scfh'

have we found a good source for the sicce yet?
  #10  
Old 08/10/2007, 06:03 PM
luke33 luke33 is offline
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No, not for cheap. I found 2 suprema's for 65 a pop, there a step up from the 2500's found at fins reef for 125bux. But my guy is out of sicce's.....sucks
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  #11  
Old 08/10/2007, 06:41 PM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichConley
And pull about 10 scfh.
10SCFH? the ER site says 450LPH which should be about 17 SCFH. Not arguing, but I am just going by there site.

THe DNW110 it is going on can only handle about 14-15 SCFH even with the 18" neck extension. Maybe I could mod the venturi and get close to that.

I'm just sick of the OTP pumps burning out on me and want to get a pump that will do 8-10 LPM and be reliable...pref not chinese junk. Any other suggestions Rich??
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  #12  
Old 08/10/2007, 07:50 PM
wharfrat48 wharfrat48 is offline
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I thought the octo was the best thing out there? Now all of a sudden these pumps/skimmers suck (or not)? I've read 80+ pages of how to do some simple mods to these skimmers which was supposed to make them equal to others 3X the price. Now that suddenly has changed? Whats going on?

For what it is worth. I'm pretty happy with my NW200. Did the mesh mod and opened the venturi a bit-- and I'm pulling out some nasty funk.
  #13  
Old 08/10/2007, 08:56 PM
SlowCobra SlowCobra is offline
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Octopus redesigned the pump, less windings and a smaller needle wheel is my understanding from what I have read on here. A few simple mods to mine, after the breakage and repair, it is brand new and I have to have the standpipe all the way down or the foam is literally push the top off. The bubbles are extremely fine in it. I am waiting for my kill a watt to arrive to see what it going on with it before I get any more extreme.


Maybe a video of the bubbles in the canister for all to see is in order?
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Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience.

Do not for one minute believe this hobby is cheap or easy. Get a hooker if you want that!

Last edited by SlowCobra; 08/10/2007 at 09:08 PM.
  #14  
Old 08/10/2007, 10:51 PM
ThaNgBOm321 ThaNgBOm321 is offline
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i know that it's hard to change somthing that you dont know what your changing from but, i figured if i can just trim it back.. to even use a little less electric then cool... im really poor... so i rather not spend more money then i have ( i know a lot of your are in the same boat) plus i think it's pulling too much air for the neck size... im still using the OG valve on it and i cant 'fine' tune it to exactly where i want it... it's always a little too wet (green tea) or really dry (2 weeks to fill)... the problem is that the neck gets too crudded up when it's too dry and it take forever to skimm stuff out... i clean the cup 1x a week... just to keep the neck clean but i just would like to not have to sqush my hand around in all that just for 5 minutes ...

YzGyz
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thx to Randy and so many other for making reefing that much easier
  #15  
Old 08/10/2007, 10:52 PM
ThaNgBOm321 ThaNgBOm321 is offline
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i know that it's hard to change somthing that you dont know what your changing from but, i figured if i can just trim it back.. to even use a little less electric then cool... im really poor... so i rather not spend more money then i have ( i know a lot of your are in the same boat) plus i think it's pulling too much air for the neck size... im still using the OG valve on it and i cant 'fine' tune it to exactly where i want it... it's always a little too wet (green tea) or really dry (2 weeks to fill)... the problem is that the neck gets too crudded up when it's too dry and it take forever to skimm stuff out... i clean the cup 1x a week... just to keep the neck clean but i just would like to not have to sqush my hand around in all that stuff for 5 minutes ...

YzGyz
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YzGyz = Wise Guys ohhh and cows go MOOO!!!

2nd best way is to learn from ones own mistakes but the best way to learn is from others...

thx to Randy and so many other for making reefing that much easier
  #16  
Old 08/10/2007, 11:34 PM
Noise Noise is offline
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Where do you get air flow meters from to measure how much air you are pulling?
  #17  
Old 08/11/2007, 12:13 AM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by wharfrat48
I thought the octo was the best thing out there? Now all of a sudden these pumps/skimmers suck (or not)? I've read 80+ pages of how to do some simple mods to these skimmers which was supposed to make them equal to others 3X the price. Now that suddenly has changed? Whats going on?

For what it is worth. I'm pretty happy with my NW200. Did the mesh mod and opened the venturi a bit-- and I'm pulling out some nasty funk.
I'm not saying the skimmers suck at all...I've done a few simple, and a few not so simple mods and gotten a skimmer that will run circles around a comparable ER for half the price. I have just had 2 pumps meltdown on me and am looking for a step up.

There will always be better pumps, and there will always be cheaper pumps...the hope is to find the one that is best for the money, and I just can't say tyhat the octopus pumps are that pump.

FWIW, I'm going to keep the octo body and just mount a new pump on it.
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  #18  
Old 08/11/2007, 12:17 AM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Noise
Where do you get air flow meters from to measure how much air you are pulling?
Dwyer look at the RMB series, and IMO get one with a SS valve on it.
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  #19  
Old 08/11/2007, 12:24 AM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
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slow cobra...did you get an air meter? I'm curious what you are getting.
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  #20  
Old 08/11/2007, 12:32 AM
SlowCobra SlowCobra is offline
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I tried to obtain one locally on the CMAS forum but no one appears to have one. I really dont want to buy it for the couple times I am going to use it.
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Do not for one minute believe this hobby is cheap or easy. Get a hooker if you want that!
  #21  
Old 08/11/2007, 04:23 PM
ibmgeek ibmgeek is offline
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When was it that the octopus skimmers got the cheaper pumps? I bought one on Nov 2006. I know that you can measure the needle wheel but the problem is that i had received mine with a regular paddle wheel and then the online store sent me the regular needlewheel.
  #22  
Old 08/12/2007, 01:03 AM
porthios porthios is offline
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alright, played with mine a little more. started the day with 15scfh @ 55w.

ported the volute, played with the venturi a bit and added a 3rd layer of pf4. still can't get better than 17scfh @ 90w. i'm reading at the middle of the ball btw, if that's wrong speak up..

that's hotter than i want to continually push this pump. i have a new venturi otw (want to try one more thing) and if that doesn't work, i'm definitely gonna look for a new pump..
  #23  
Old 08/12/2007, 01:22 AM
SlowCobra SlowCobra is offline
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Hey JCT want to lend me yours? USPS priority mail is about $5 ill paypal you the money.
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Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience.

Do not for one minute believe this hobby is cheap or easy. Get a hooker if you want that!
  #24  
Old 08/12/2007, 01:27 AM
JCTewks JCTewks is offline
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Wow, they've really screwed up their new pumps!! Does any one have one of the new OTP3000's they'd be willing to ship me just to see IF they are really as bad as they sound? I could mod it and ship it back after testing.

Porthios, middle of the ball is where I read mine at. what meter do you have? If it is one of the RMA's they can be a little restrictive, due to their small fittings...but you'll only lose a few SCFH even then. 90 watts will quickly burn out the pump. What is the PF?

ibmgeek...You should have one of the good pumps! A little modding and you'll be able to tell pretty quick.
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  #25  
Old 08/12/2007, 01:44 AM
ibmgeek ibmgeek is offline
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Woohoo! I thought that i must have had the old ones but just wanted to make sure. Ill mod it shortly.

Thanks
 

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