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Old 11/28/2007, 02:12 PM   #1
nemofish2217
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Okay, we need to solve this

So i just spent some time reading through this thread started by MuchoReef.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

My zoas are showing a lot of the same symptoms discussed in the thread. They aren't closed, but they do appear to be getting smaller and are looking weak. Some aren't even opening up the entire way. i have not lost any colonies YET, but i am afraid they are going to whither away to nothing. i have not done anything different, and other corals in the tank, hammer, toadstool, mushrooms, and monti cap are doing great. Only some of the colonies have been affected.

We need to come up with ideas to try to solve this problem, there has to be a way. If we can figure something out, then myself and other reefers wont have to helplessly sit and watch our favorite zoas dissappear before our eyes.

it is entirely possible that there is no solution, and it can randomly happen, just as xenia can be fine one day and melt the next.

here are some things I read that we might look into to help. Since obviously the dips do not help, we can assume that it is not a fungus or a predator, unless they are immune to the dips. Also, since the polyps seem to be dissolving and not dissapearing, I would not think that it is a predator. So, here's what i think it could be, and i am by no means an expert.

1. This might be mere coincidence, but Mucho's thread was started last september, around the same time of this year when i first saw the signs of abnormalty. The main discussion on this particular thread fell off by the end of november. So, could it be possible that what happens has something to do with the season change or something of that nature? I have no clue but i am just throwing it out there.

2. Could the salt quality be an issue? Some one posted in the thread that they started seeing problems when they switched to a different type of salt. If we get a bad batch of salt where maybe the trace elements are off, could this hurt or stress out the zoas?

3. What about light? No, i'm not really talking about what type or how much, but i read in the thread where someone had turned off their lights for a few days to help with algea, and when they turned them on their zoas seemed to do better. I have turned my light off for the next couple of days to help with a little algea, and i will let everyone know if i see any improvement.

4. Could it be an additive issue? Could we not be adding enough of something or getting too much of something in our tanks that our causing the demise of our zoas? I would think not, because in my case at least, not all of the zoas are being affected, but it is possible.

5. Could salinity be too high/low? right now my sg is at 1.023. It was at 1.025 or 6, but when i saw the problems i was having, i decided to slowly drop it to see if it helped any. It hasn't and i am under the impression that salinity is not the problem.

6. Finally, could it be some form of chemical warfare that is lethal to zoas? Could it be an "X" factor coral that emits a toxin that zoas can't stand? If we could find a commong coral we all have that is in the tank with these zoas we might have a lead. Once again, i don not expect this to be the answer because not all zoas in the tank are affected. Maybe it has something to do with proximity.

So, I really want to get this thing beat, because i am tired of seeing my zoas deteriorate. I want this thread to be a great discussion of ideas and suggestions. Also, post pictures! Sorry for the long thread, lol


Here are some of my "infected." I see the red "cyano" type material some people were talking about, but i don't think it is cyano because it wont blow off under a powerhead. Also, this is the only colony i see any traces of it.

Before:


Now:


Before:


Now:



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Old 11/28/2007, 02:40 PM   #2
pondy
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Looks to me like zoapox. I cant see for sure in the pictures but do your zoas have white spots on them near the base or around where they open?


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Troughs are not full so that is why only 120g.
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Old 11/28/2007, 02:42 PM   #3
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yes, but its sand debri....sorry for the crappy pics, but yeah i freaked out when i saw those but they do blow off...


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Old 11/28/2007, 03:03 PM   #4
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oh ok, THat is good because right now I am fighting zoapox right now and the furan-2 is in the mail right now. SO I hope it gets here soon. Good luck with your zoas


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Troughs are not full so that is why only 120g.
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Old 11/28/2007, 06:02 PM   #5
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I'm on board!!!


I see the cyano on those closed polyps. I'm having the exact same problem. This cyano sticks to the polyps and irritates them. I have to physically scrape the cyano off the individual polyps with a toothbrush as just blasting it with the baster has no effect.

Do you have any other areas with cyano? What are your nitrates? Phosphates? Any recent changes in lighting?

Here's my story. I figure if we get enough stories that lead up to this happening, maybe we can pinpoint something.

My problem began when I put my CA reactor online. It dropped my pH WAY down to about 7.3 at night. That, coupled with the jug of Oceanic i had mixing up at 7.9 pH caused me to switch salts to IO in hopes of getting fresh SW with a decent pH for my WCs. During this time of low pH, i lost a lot of SPS but my zoas and LPS were doing fine. That was fine for about half the bucket, then the salt mixed up at 7.7! By this time, i had cyano, dinos, hair algae popping up, zoas were melting away, LPS closed up and browning, but my SPS were doing incredible! This made no sense to me, still doesn't. I went back to Oceanic and started aerating the fresh SW with outside air. That worked great, i now get fresh SW mixing up at 8.3. But i still had cyano and dinos, hair algae went away almost immediately. After 2 months of daily basting, weekly syphoning i decided to get drastic. I added mesh bags to my overflow drains, added a HOB filter with Phoslock and carbon. On Tuesday that week my light went off and stayed off until Saturday morning. I awoke to a spotless tank. No more cyano, no more dinos, and my zoas all were about half open. I hadn't seen any zoas open except my Nuclear Greens and Purple Deaths for 4 months at this point, so i was ecstatic. The cyano slowely crept back, but only on the polyps like your 2nd pic. Even violent shaking in a bucket doesn't remove this cyano.

I truely think that cyano stuff is the problem. Its not a normal type though, like you stated. We need to get to the root of what is causing this "sticky cyano" IMO.


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Old 11/28/2007, 08:18 PM   #6
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see thats the thing....that is the only spot "i can see" that has cyano. It could be other places but i don't see it. Hopefully the lights being off will help the situation. Phosphate levels are very low, although nitrates are at about 5ppm. Lighting has not changed at all. I don;t even think it was any corals i may have added, because the only ones were a very small toadstool frag and two mangroves.

I think you may be right about the cyano or something there we might not be able to see being the problem. Maybe we can solve it by just turning off our lights for a few days every month. There was a thread about doing this a while back. Other than that, i have no clue what to do. i have been stepping up my water changes. about 2.5 gallons on a 14 gallon tank every week or so thinking this might help get out whatever might be cousing the problem. I have some phosban lying around, so what i might try to do is measure out a very small amount and put it in a filter bag in the back of the biocube. The flow wont be too strong and maybe this will take out whatever the cyano(or whatever it is) is feeding off of. I wanna beat this thing!


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Old 11/29/2007, 09:43 AM   #7
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Yah give the phosban a try. I've noticed in the 2 or 3 weeks i've been using it that the cyano takes longer to come back. But turning off the lights didn't completely get rid of the cyano.

I did my weekly 18gal WC last night. I took every zoa and held it in front of a pump to try and get the cyano off with not much luck. Ended up scrapping all my frags/colonies with the soft toothbrush. Man that took forever.

Do you have any PPE, RPE, NGs, or PDs? These are the only zoas that are not affected in my tank.


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Old 11/29/2007, 11:14 AM   #8
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I do have some RPE's and they still look great...how weird is that? Do you think that calcium levels might possibly be an issue? i just read this in another thread where i guy was told pinched stems could have something to do with too much calcium. I wonder if it could because the zoas don't use up a ton of calcium, at least i don't think. Maybe we could try using a salt with a lower calcium content? Which one has the lowest? I might try regular IO instead of RC. i think we are getting closer

I will start the phosban tonight....what would be the best way to measure out the right amount for a 14 gallon biocube...i know it will be a super small amount, and i know you don't want to overdose....


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Old 11/29/2007, 02:50 PM   #9
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I have almost the same problem, I have some zoos that are healthy in my tank, others just die within days of me putting them in my tank.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...light=mnestroy


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Old 11/29/2007, 05:35 PM   #10
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My calcium is spot on 420-450ppm consistantly, so i don't think thats it. If calcium is too high, i would tend to think alk is also off since they are so closely linked. Plus i've used IO and thats when my problem started. It sure does have low calcium, my bucket mixed up at 270ppm.

My zoas are definately on the mend. I've seen significant improvement on my ring of fires, and my eye of rah frag is opening again although the polyps are still small for some reason. But some are still just like your pics above. I don't even know what else to try, so i'm just doing my weekly WCs, skimming wet, basting the rocks and walls, and using carbon/phoslock and hope for the best.

For the phosban it should say how much to use per gallon, i think its like 1gram per 1 gallon.


mnestroy - give us some info on your tank and how the zoas look while they are in your tank. Are the ones that die wild? Any problems with the ones living now?


Also another thought. How old are the frags/colonies in your tank? My zoas are all at least 1yr old in my system. Some of them are over 3 years old. I have not added any new zoas for at least 6 months.


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Old 11/29/2007, 05:56 PM   #11
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I had some reds with purple centers that were looking just like these were and I brought them back with TMPCC dips and now I add TMPCC to my system weekly and they are doing GREAT.
Do u dose iodine in your system??


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Old 11/30/2007, 10:41 AM   #12
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I wouldn't dose TMPCC into my system. Its not purely iodine if i recall correctly. I'd suggest changing to Lugol's for that.

TMPCC kills pods, bristleworms, and all sorts of other bugs.


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Old 11/30/2007, 11:25 AM   #13
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i was going to start dosing iodine....just the kent's stuff...maybe that will help?


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Old 11/30/2007, 11:35 AM   #14
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I'm learing of adding things i cannot test for. Its really your call.


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Old 11/30/2007, 08:31 PM   #15
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I found this iodine salifert test kit...http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...ct~SF1121.html
I'm debating on whether to buy it or not.... prolly should...


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Old 11/30/2007, 09:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by impur



mnestroy - give us some info on your tank and how the zoas look while they are in your tank. Are the ones that die wild? Any problems with the ones living now?

I dont wana hijack this thread, but I you want to help me you can review my entire problem in the link i posted.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...light=mnestroy


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Old 12/08/2007, 11:53 AM   #17
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any updates from anybody??


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Old 12/08/2007, 06:51 PM   #18
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I'm trying to treat mine with Vitamin C

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1252294


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Old 12/09/2007, 02:28 PM   #19
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is it working?


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Old 12/09/2007, 03:29 PM   #20
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Only on day 4, with a low dose, will increase dose in a few days.

I'll post my results in the below thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1252294

BTW: No changes in anything so far (zoo's health, PH, Calcium, etc)


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Old 12/12/2007, 10:43 AM   #21
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i did some looking in the tank today, saw both some spionid worms and vermited(sp.) snails... i'm wondering if they might be a big part of my problems???


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Old 12/12/2007, 12:58 PM   #22
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I have them too, I don't think they are the problem. I had them when my zoas all looked great.

About 1/3 of my colonies are opening and looking good again. All i've done is keep up weekly WCs, clean the mesh bags on my drain lines weekly, and add Phoslock and carbon in a HOB filter. I know my problem is different from yours, mine is this odd sticky cyano that has to be brushed off the polyps as that is the only way i can remove it.


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Old 12/12/2007, 01:07 PM   #23
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i have some of that cyano looking stuff too.... i have to physically remove it by hand...i went ahead and fragged some of the colonies, and i moved them around to different areas of the tank hoping to see if that makes a difference... I guess i need to try the phosban....


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Old 12/12/2007, 03:59 PM   #24
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I just tested my alkalinity and it was low, about 6dkh, so i am going to try to bring that up to about 10-12....


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Old 12/12/2007, 11:10 PM   #25
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Would a water pick be better than a toothbrush for removing the cyano? Just wondering.


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