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Old 01/11/2008, 10:13 PM   #601
spleen93
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Hey NG - long time no post. I've gone from a ER needlewheel to an ATI BM160 and I believe one thing now - meshwheels can be more powerful than needlewheels in foam production and skimming ... but are also more inherently finicky and require more "fiddling" to keep things in the sweet spot. I think my BM160 outperforms my ER but it takes more hands-on to keep it performing well while my ER was more of a "drop it in a sump and forget about it" skimmer. That's for what it's worth and it's the last thing I'm going to say about skimmers since it's such a polarizing subject ... except one more thing. If you're happy with your ASM, there's nothing wrong with that but you may want to look at the other skimmers that are newer in technology and cost about the same like the Octopus or the DAS. I hear you about the cost of skimmers.

In any case, I wanted to ask why you weren't looking at doing a fuge with this tank? Having high flow / high skimming doesn't necessarily mean that you can't use a fuge with the system; the two are not exclusive of each other. If you're looking to lower nitrates/phosphates, a fuge is not a bad thing (neither is a RDSB). More export of nutrients can never be bad.

Love the planning stage of a tank ...

Spleen


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Old 01/11/2008, 11:21 PM   #602
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Quote:
Originally posted by NanoGurl
I like the tech tanks too =)

Thanks, adding some T5's is a good idea. That way I could create the dusk/dawn effect as well.

I really don't know why I've had so much trouble with bleaching.. but I have.
I am so jealous, I couldnt get anyone to sell me a tech tank with a lead time under 2 months My house projects will not wait two months so I have an AGA instead. On the positive side I did save some $$


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Old 01/12/2008, 12:25 AM   #603
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Nanogurl, what do you feed your fish to make them look so healthy and beautiful? That powder blue looks like you just teleported her from Hawaii. Beautiful fish, I want to know how to get my tiny blue tang to turn out like "Ocean." Do you use Selcon?


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Old 01/12/2008, 12:28 AM   #604
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Quote:
Originally posted by crvz
Thanks! I would consider the 250 again, I've been really happy with their service and the product is a good choice... but for some reason lately I'm being drawn to the ATI BubbleMaster skimmers. The ATI BM200 is more than I paid for the ER CS250 that I've got, but it just seems like a good product. I'd have to do research to really convince myself, though.
Yea, I saw it would be $600 for the Bubble Master for the size I would want. I don't know if it's worth another $130 upgrade from the ER?


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Old 01/12/2008, 12:34 AM   #605
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Quote:
Originally posted by spleen93
Hey NG - long time no post. I've gone from a ER needlewheel to an ATI BM160 and I believe one thing now - meshwheels can be more powerful than needlewheels in foam production and skimming ... but are also more inherently finicky and require more "fiddling" to keep things in the sweet spot. I think my BM160 outperforms my ER but it takes more hands-on to keep it performing well while my ER was more of a "drop it in a sump and forget about it" skimmer. That's for what it's worth and it's the last thing I'm going to say about skimmers since it's such a polarizing subject ... except one more thing. If you're happy with your ASM, there's nothing wrong with that but you may want to look at the other skimmers that are newer in technology and cost about the same like the Octopus or the DAS. I hear you about the cost of skimmers.

In any case, I wanted to ask why you weren't looking at doing a fuge with this tank? Having high flow / high skimming doesn't necessarily mean that you can't use a fuge with the system; the two are not exclusive of each other. If you're looking to lower nitrates/phosphates, a fuge is not a bad thing (neither is a RDSB). More export of nutrients can never be bad.

Love the planning stage of a tank ...

Spleen
Hey stranger =)

Thanks for the great info... that def helps me out. I'm all about plug and play lol. I don't want to have to mess with a skimmer anymore then necessary.. but I know all skimmers are like that to a degree.

I just don't know how much a fuge is really going to help me. The small size of chaeto in my sump now can't possibly do THAT much nitrate reduction... vs the detris that gets trapped in their from feeding my eel mainly... I just don't know if it would really add anything to my tank at this point.

I have not ruled out a fuge.. i like the idea of one mainly bc I have a lobster that is in there now... but i have a lot of algae and red cyno (i think) in there and it just seems easier if I didn't have any of that and could just wipe it clean and suction out.

Idk.. I might be wrong.


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Old 01/12/2008, 12:35 AM   #606
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Quote:
Originally posted by bohlke
I am so jealous, I couldnt get anyone to sell me a tech tank with a lead time under 2 months My house projects will not wait two months so I have an AGA instead. On the positive side I did save some $$
Aww sorry to hear that. I don't know if there is a delay or not from Oceanic, but I was told 1 week here. I have time though I don't need the tank until march.


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Old 01/12/2008, 12:39 AM   #607
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Quote:
Originally posted by thrillreefer
Nanogurl, what do you feed your fish to make them look so healthy and beautiful? That powder blue looks like you just teleported her from Hawaii. Beautiful fish, I want to know how to get my tiny blue tang to turn out like "Ocean." Do you use Selcon?
Thank you =)

I feed Ocean a mixture of a lot of things... brine, mysis, flakes, spirlina, formula 1 & 2, lots of nori clips.. and also garlic.

I have not used Selcon before but I have some on order and am going to try.

I have a lot of flow in my tank and higher temps and think that really helps him. He loves the current and oxygen which is important to tangs.


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Old 01/12/2008, 12:39 AM   #608
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Quote:
Originally posted by NanoGurl
Yea, I saw it would be $600 for the Bubble Master for the size I would want. I don't know if it's worth another $130 upgrade from the ER?
The MSX 200 looks really nice though, yea they are new but they seem to have great potential. They even use the same sicce pumps as the ati BM, which cost like 110 alone. The price for the msx 200 is 350. heres links to both of them...
msx200
http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/ca...5kmr2391vhv623
ati BM 200
https://diyreef.authsecure.com/shop/...8308d6969dda40

HTH


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Old 01/12/2008, 01:35 AM   #609
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Thanks =) I am hesitant to purchase something new and unproven right now... so I am really leaning towards the ER.


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Old 01/12/2008, 01:45 AM   #610
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Question about the ER 250

Can you direct feed the skimmer from the overflow? Would this be a good idea?


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Old 01/12/2008, 01:49 AM   #611
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I take it you're talking about the RC-250 from Euro Reef?

If so, yes. Just Tee off of one of your drain lines and put a ball valve on the way into the skimmer to control how much goes into it. The rest will go into the sump.


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Current Tank Info: 40B, 20L Sump/Fuge, Mag 9.5 Return, 2x Hydor Koralia #2's, 150W 14K HQI, 139W T-5, Euro-Reef RS-80P Mesh Modded, 40LB LR, 80LB LS, 54x Turnover, Mostly SPS, Some Softys Too.
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Old 01/12/2008, 01:51 AM   #612
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Yes, sorry.

Okay... if I do that.. what's the advantage if some is going to the skimmer and some isn't? Is it bc the skimmer can't handle the entire flow?


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Old 01/12/2008, 01:51 AM   #613
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Also, once you get it, mesh mod that bad boy. You'll be glad you did. If you don't have the video on how to do it, PM me and I'll send you it.


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Current Tank Info: 40B, 20L Sump/Fuge, Mag 9.5 Return, 2x Hydor Koralia #2's, 150W 14K HQI, 139W T-5, Euro-Reef RS-80P Mesh Modded, 40LB LR, 80LB LS, 54x Turnover, Mostly SPS, Some Softys Too.
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Old 01/12/2008, 01:58 AM   #614
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Quote:
Originally posted by NanoGurl
Yes, sorry.

Okay... if I do that.. what's the advantage if some is going to the skimmer and some isn't? Is it bc the skimmer can't handle the entire flow?
Correct. Your sump will most likely be getting more flow than your skimmer would be able to efficiently skim, and sort of be a waste of some sorts. This way, you'll up the contact time that the water is in the skimmer and end up with cleaner water. I think you want 3-5x system turnover per hour through your skimmer. (wetwebmedia)

In your case with a 180, you'd want between 540 and 900gph going through the skimmer.


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See, that's the trouble with the world today. Not enough danger to kill off stupid people before they get old enough to breed. Bring back lawn darts! -PrivateJoker64

Current Tank Info: 40B, 20L Sump/Fuge, Mag 9.5 Return, 2x Hydor Koralia #2's, 150W 14K HQI, 139W T-5, Euro-Reef RS-80P Mesh Modded, 40LB LR, 80LB LS, 54x Turnover, Mostly SPS, Some Softys Too.
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Old 01/12/2008, 02:02 AM   #615
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I'm going with a 120g =)

Not sure what the overflow gph is on that one... it's the Oceanic 120 Tech.

Is there a good return pump that I could use pvc to connect back to the tank instead of the clear flexible tubing? I want something more secure, but no idea how to connect it to the return bulkhead.

Thanks for the info!!


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Old 01/12/2008, 02:10 AM   #616
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Quote:
Originally posted by NanoGurl
I'm going with a 120g =)

Not sure what the overflow gph is on that one... it's the Oceanic 120 Tech.

Is there a good return pump that I could use pvc to connect back to the tank instead of the clear flexible tubing? I want something more secure, but no idea how to connect it to the return bulkhead.

Thanks for the info!!
120 was my second guess, I couldn't remember.

So you'll want between 360 and 600gph going through your skimmer.

How big are the drain lines on the overflow? I can't find the GPH for that tank.

Anyways, I am a big fan of Mag Drive pumps, and they can of course be hard plumbed without any problems. I'm like you, I'd never trust that clear plastic hose with a hose clamp on my tank.

Are you looking to get an internal (submerged) return, or an external one?


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Current Tank Info: 40B, 20L Sump/Fuge, Mag 9.5 Return, 2x Hydor Koralia #2's, 150W 14K HQI, 139W T-5, Euro-Reef RS-80P Mesh Modded, 40LB LR, 80LB LS, 54x Turnover, Mostly SPS, Some Softys Too.
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Old 01/12/2008, 02:12 AM   #617
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A submersible pump like Mag or Eheim will work. I've always used Mag pumps. For a 120, a Mag 9.5 or Mag 12 would be more than enough pump.

Both pumps have 3/4" threads on the outlet. You'll need a 3/4" to 1" (or 1.5") bushing, a 1" (or 1.5") union, 1" (or 1.5") PVC / SpaFlex to run up to the tank, then reduce down to what fits the bulkhead. *** The reason I listed 1" or 1.5" is because I don't know what size you'd prefer. Just do NOT use 3/4" for the entire run. ***

SpaFlex is very good because you can bend it somewhat, compared to rigid PVC. You can put SpaFlex in the over at 200F for 5 minutes to make it more pliable.

Rigid PVC works too, but you have to get it right with a few extra fittings.

A union allows you to disconnect the pump for cleaning.

Did you read my Sump article yet from this month's reefkeeping? There's even pretty pictures.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/newbie/index.php


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Old 01/12/2008, 02:15 AM   #618
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snowboarda42
120 was my second guess, I couldn't remember.

So you'll want between 360 and 600gph going through your skimmer.

How big are the drain lines on the overflow? I can't find the GPH for that tank.

Anyways, I am a big fan of Mag Drive pumps, and they can of course be hard plumbed without any problems. I'm like you, I'd never trust that clear plastic hose with a hose clamp on my tank.

Are you looking to get an internal (submerged) return, or an external one?
I don't know I don't have the tank yet. I couldn't find the info either.

I have a mag 5.5 that could work? How do you connect the mags to the pvc? Never done that before?

Internal return pump.


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Old 01/12/2008, 02:19 AM   #619
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Quote:
Originally posted by melev
A submersible pump like Mag or Eheim will work. I've always used Mag pumps. For a 120, a Mag 9.5 or Mag 12 would be more than enough pump.

Both pumps have 3/4" threads on the outlet. You'll need a 3/4" to 1" (or 1.5") bushing, a 1" (or 1.5") union, 1" (or 1.5") PVC / SpaFlex to run up to the tank, then reduce down to what fits the bulkhead. *** The reason I listed 1" or 1.5" is because I don't know what size you'd prefer. Just do NOT use 3/4" for the entire run. ***

SpaFlex is very good because you can bend it somewhat, compared to rigid PVC. You can put SpaFlex in the over at 200F for 5 minutes to make it more pliable.

Rigid PVC works too, but you have to get it right with a few extra fittings.

A union allows you to disconnect the pump for cleaning.

Did you read my Sump article yet from this month's reefkeeping? There's even pretty pictures.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/newbie/index.php
Thanks Marc! That helps a lot. No, I didn't even know you had articles for that? I'm going to read it now.

Is 1" or 1.5" better? I have no clue. Where do you get spaflex?

Yay this is so fun I almost understand it! lol


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Old 01/12/2008, 02:24 AM   #620
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It would be better to use 1.5" even though it isn't for a long run (of plumbing). Mag pumps work better when you double the thread size. A mag 9.5 or 12 has 3/4" threads, so doubling it would be 1.5" plumbing.

SpaFlex is sold online or at Home Depot / Lowes. They sell it by the foot. I have pictures of all my plumbing using SpaFlex as well as rigid PVC on my 280g's sump page. And one day I'm going to make the time to do a page about plumbing because all I do is type this stuff out all the time. I'd rather just do it once, do it right and point people to it from now on.

I do have a couple of pages showing plumbing, both to my own sump as well as the "How to install a sump in an existing setup" page.


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Old 01/12/2008, 02:25 AM   #621
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Sorwee to make you type it again :P I'm going to go look now... after I am done reading your article.. it's good so far!

Thanks! =)


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Old 01/12/2008, 02:26 AM   #622
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I agree with Melev (who wouldn't?)

I'd go with a bigger pump than a Mag 5.5

Depending on whom you talk to, you'll want your sump to turnover between 3 - 15x per hour of your system volume. I know Melev likes between 3-5, I'm up around 14x on mine. I like the added flow in the tank, my chaeto is always tumbling, and I've found no ill effects from the extra flow. You just need to have it dialed back so it doesn't out flow your overflow, if that makes sense.

As far as connecting the Mag drive to PVC, Home Depot or Lowes sells fittings that will adapt the 3/4" NPT thread to whatever size pipe you want. Mag drive manuals state that you want at least 2x the size of the outlet for your plumbing. In your case, 1.5" inner diameter.

For picking out the size of your pump you have two options. You can buy a pump that will outflow your overflow, and simply dial it back/divert it, or get a smaller one so that your overflow will always outflow your pump. Either way, we first need to find out how much your overflow will take, most of which is determined by the size of drain lines that are on the tank.


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See, that's the trouble with the world today. Not enough danger to kill off stupid people before they get old enough to breed. Bring back lawn darts! -PrivateJoker64

Current Tank Info: 40B, 20L Sump/Fuge, Mag 9.5 Return, 2x Hydor Koralia #2's, 150W 14K HQI, 139W T-5, Euro-Reef RS-80P Mesh Modded, 40LB LR, 80LB LS, 54x Turnover, Mostly SPS, Some Softys Too.
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Old 01/12/2008, 02:26 AM   #623
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No problem. If I do it enough, I'll get motivated to do it one LAST time.


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Old 01/12/2008, 03:26 AM   #624
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snowboarda42
I agree with Melev (who wouldn't?)

I'd go with a bigger pump than a Mag 5.5

Depending on whom you talk to, you'll want your sump to turnover between 3 - 15x per hour of your system volume. I know Melev likes between 3-5, I'm up around 14x on mine. I like the added flow in the tank, my chaeto is always tumbling, and I've found no ill effects from the extra flow. You just need to have it dialed back so it doesn't out flow your overflow, if that makes sense.

As far as connecting the Mag drive to PVC, Home Depot or Lowes sells fittings that will adapt the 3/4" NPT thread to whatever size pipe you want. Mag drive manuals state that you want at least 2x the size of the outlet for your plumbing. In your case, 1.5" inner diameter.

For picking out the size of your pump you have two options. You can buy a pump that will outflow your overflow, and simply dial it back/divert it, or get a smaller one so that your overflow will always outflow your pump. Either way, we first need to find out how much your overflow will take, most of which is determined by the size of drain lines that are on the tank.
Okay cool... I will try to find out the size. I would rather have a pump that is slower then my overflows... I don't want to run a ton of flow through the sump. I had issues with that on my 75.

Thanks!


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Old 01/12/2008, 03:27 AM   #625
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Quote:
Originally posted by melev
No problem. If I do it enough, I'll get motivated to do it one LAST time.
hehehhe :P


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