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Old 01/06/2008, 06:43 PM   #76
Fliger
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DP


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Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.
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Old 01/06/2008, 06:46 PM   #77
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Well its $305 vs $355 for an established pump, RC sponsor, INCREDIBLE customer service, pump controlled by a variety of controllers (Neptune, Profilux, Elos), easy to find used parts, etc. What kind of transformers do these have? Tunzes only have the small black box about the size of a computer mouse. The 6101 is also a combo of the 6000 & 6100, with a simple switch of a fuse.

I love paying less for things, but this wouldn't really even be a consideration unless they were well under $250.

It would have also been nice if they would have done SOMETHING, ANYTHING substantially different. The specs are practically exact which means they basically took a Tunze and reverse engineered it with cheaper parts. And they're not even battling the USD vs the Euro, and its still only 15% less than the Tunze.


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Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.
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Old 01/06/2008, 07:39 PM   #78
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you are compairing the price of the x-wave to the 6101. Like I have said in my other post the x-wave moves more water then the 6100 does. I am in the process of finding out how much more the x-wave puts out. This pumps also work with the 7095 controller from what the other guy posted, which mean it will work with the aquasurf as well.
The pros of the x-wave is they are cheaper in price
The controller is more then 100.00 cheaper then the tuunze
The mounting system is alot better then the tunze
The all in one drive box is very nice
The switch rather then a POS screw for flow controlle is nicer
if you look at the pic I posted you can see the all in one driver box


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Old 01/06/2008, 07:50 PM   #79
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Hey I hope with time they do last as long as Tunzes, and there is the service to support them. The specs on the 6101 & this one say the exact same thing so I'm interested in your tests. Make sure you use a brand new 6101. On the mounting system you mean suction cups?

BTW on the 6101 - the all in one box is very small. No silver/blue box and the doughnut is gone. The screw is now a dial on the outside, which is very easy to use. Just making sure you are comparing the 6101 and not the old models.

Like I said I hope they are good, you're lucky you got them before the quick price hike, they are now $305 on Custom also.

One thing I with the 7095 did was create waves like the Profilux, etc. Maybe this one will.


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Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.
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Old 01/06/2008, 07:56 PM   #80
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the mounting systems that comes with the x-wave is not just suction cups. They have a whole bunch of different was to mount , yes they do have suction cups but they also have bracket like the tunze , I will take pics of all the mounting hard ware when I get back home. They do also work with the surgrip magnetic holders.

I have quite a few test I am going to run when I get home. I will post m results


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Old 01/06/2008, 08:00 PM   #81
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Cool, looking forward to it. Just make sure you're using a Tunze 6101 or the results aren't really valid.

Its still amusing that nothing is different. There are so many reasons I would refrain from buying this pump - but the biggest is that they basically reverse engineered a Tunze (possibly with cheaper parts and not for much $ less) - and did nothing new.


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Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.
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Old 01/07/2008, 01:15 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reeftoker
Fliger
you are compairing the price of the x-wave to the 6101. Like I have said in my other post the x-wave moves more water then the 6100 does.
Uh, they are both rated exactly the same... 12,000lph.

Also, until the chinese pump's output is verified, I wouldnt buy it. We have all seen cheap knock-offs of other pumps where the specs are copied without any real testing. The copies of the Oceanrunners, the Octopus Turbines run at almost 2x the wattage despite being based on the same pump. Im not for sure of course, but based on previous experiences... I would bet that the pumps specs are just 'paper copies' and may not be the final result.


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Old 01/07/2008, 01:31 AM   #83
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"This may be good. It will drive down the prices."

The first thing I learned in college from a prof that graduated from an Ivy League school

"never ever compete on price"

1. You will beat each other up back and forth until neither can stay in business
2. Or, one will win and knock someone out of business and create a monopoly AND reduce inovation (or kill the person that had innovation)
3. This reduces quality, reliability and incentive for future R&D from occuring

those are just some of the issues he listed

Stop supporting rippoffs cheap SOB's =P Lastly, stop supporting Walmart
1. slave labor
2. supporting pple that rip pple off
3. kills ma/pa store and local economies (let alone quality, innovation)
4. doesn't support the need for higher education or technology advancements
etc. etc.
- Think Petsmart Saltwater Dept. All they care about is the $$ and not the animals or those that have put the work into developing the hobby to where it is (or should be).
- Or Dell - which doesn't invent anything and just rips off HP and others... I'm glad it finally caught up to them =)


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Old 01/07/2008, 06:19 AM   #84
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Is this the same TUNZE I know IT WILL NOT drive down the price's.


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Old 01/07/2008, 07:18 AM   #85
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For what its worth,this weekend I decided to see if what "I was told about the pumps capable of being used on the Tunze 7095 controller and vise versa" so I took my 7095 controller unit and tried to plug the similar round plug in,didn't fit the Xwave plug for the controller has a extra pin the the middle,and the 7095 does not have the center pin.

So I was not impressed with what I was told because it was incorrect.If you have the Xwave you must use it with a Xwave controller .


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Old 01/07/2008, 07:51 AM   #86
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"never ever compete on price"

You are telling me there isn't some slack that could be taken out of this market when an electric motor hooked to a prop commands 300+ dollars?


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Old 01/07/2008, 07:54 AM   #87
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Well get a US company to make one that will sell it for $150 and he will have a line out the door selling them. If it was that easy everybody would do it.


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Old 01/07/2008, 07:58 AM   #88
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well that makes me wonder about what I have been told about the x-wave beeing able to be run off the 7095. So I am going to do some testing for myself when I get back home and see what I found out


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Old 01/07/2008, 08:53 AM   #89
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what bugs me is the fact that these pumps are made in china and tunze is made in europe. the price from china should ba alot cheaper not just $50 cheaper. because of the difference in the dollar vs the euro we have to pay alot more for products from europe. but the pumps from china should cost alot less because the chineese dollar is alot less than the american dollar. right now the conversion is 1 usd is =to 67 cents euro. but in china 1 usd is =to 7.26 china yuan. so basiclly what im saying here is the difference in exchange rates should make the china pump alot cheaper to buy than the pump from europe. but its not. so that makes me think the chineese company is just trying to rip off aquarium industry. its not worth the $50 savings to try out these pumps and see if there worth it. for the extra $50 i would get the tunzes and know i have a reliable pump that will last a long time.


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Old 01/07/2008, 05:07 PM   #90
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Just want to mention something...the salary in China can vary a lot depends on where you go and the type of labou you get. In the more "business developed" areas their salary can be fairly high (granted it is still lower than US and EU).

The only draw back as mentioned is the rating for these pumps accurated. The other thing is the customer service from PCI. For me who lives in the great white north if the pump rating is accurate , customer service for PCI and Tunze will be the same non existing so price durability becomes the determining factor. As metnioned the Tunze Nano Stream is not the most durable product I ever bought. Neither is the European AquaMedic Skimmer (granted the customer service is excellent)

IMO Tunze is not a company that will compete on pricing


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Old 01/07/2008, 05:08 PM   #91
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I don't see it as purely the chinese company trying to rip off the aquarium industry. It is most likely the retailers, no?


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Old 01/07/2008, 10:57 PM   #92
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Its not all bad. We have all seen what happens to consumers who buy an inferior product... they end up having to buy again and again, and then the copy-shops lose their business. In economic terms, they are marketing to the 'tail end' of the product life curve, so its rather limiting. To be a 'low end' mfg and try to break into the 'high end' is alot tougher than being 'high end' and breaking into an 'econo' market. Exactly why BMW and Mercedes werent worried when VW said it was going to go after the 'high end' segment.

I see a 'hitch' here. Sure, the bodies come from China, but the real cost of the skimmer, the pumps, is for Italian made stuff. CoralVue wants to break in to the 'high end' market as well... so Dave is having custom volutes made for the Laguna pumps (to kick the crap out of needlewheel darts)... not cheap $$$. So in the end, things even out if the 'copy shops' want to compete for the high-end... and thats where the 'added value' sales come in.


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Old 01/07/2008, 11:53 PM   #93
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Well tunze do make some pump in china (the nano stream),
I'm sure they probably outsource some parts there for the other models.

They sure look like a knock off at a real thing price, at half the price, they would sell them like hot cake.


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Old 01/07/2008, 11:59 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Icefire
Well tunze do make some pump in china (the nano stream),
Maybe that explains why they have had so many problems with them.


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Old 01/08/2008, 07:50 AM   #95
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You know in the late 70s early 80s we laughed at cheap inferior Japanese products and we all know what happened there. The exact same thing will happen with Chinese products the difference is the Chinese have the capacity and resources (cheap labor) to make *everything*.

Aquarium equipment is way, way overpriced. $800 dollars for a hunk of acrylic with a pump? $900 dollars for a light fixture?


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Old 01/08/2008, 08:28 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Icefire
Well tunze do make some pump in china (the nano stream),
I'm sure they probably outsource some parts there for the other models.
The nanostream is not made in China. Roger said the only Tunze stuff from china are the magnets for the pumps (pretty much every manufacturer gets their magnets from China though), and the power supplies for the streams. When the nanostream first came out the shafts were made in in China, but they had issues with them and have since switched to stainless shafts made in Germany.


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Old 01/08/2008, 01:30 PM   #97
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If you all realy think about things. Look around your house , and your car, and even the computer your are reading and typing on . How much of the parts that are in 90% of the things are from CHINA. So why bash the pumps from there.


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Old 01/08/2008, 01:37 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reeftoker
If you all realy think about things. Look around your house , and your car, and even the computer your are reading and typing on . How much of the parts that are in 90% of the things are from CHINA. So why bash the pumps from there.
People aren't concerned with the fact that it's from China. It's the fact that the pump is a blatant rip-off of another manufacturer's design. They didn't even bother to make it look different.


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Old 01/08/2008, 01:44 PM   #99
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Honestly whats the big deal. Just about every other pump,skimmer, reactor, ballast so on and so on is a rip off of someone else. I dont see what the big deal is.


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Old 01/08/2008, 02:15 PM   #100
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What happens when the X-wave pump releases the magic smoke after 2 months? How's their tech support?

Tunze has a proven excellent track record when it comes to customer service.. so I guess that alone is worth the extra price. JMO


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