Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 01/08/2008, 11:10 AM   #1
khoivo1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: snowta usa
Posts: 748
electric bill ,,,,

hi all,,,,just want to know about the cost of eleactric between mh and t5 bulb,,,
let say 500w total of T5 light
and 500w total of mh light,,
will this cost the same electric bill or not really?thanks


khoivo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/08/2008, 11:28 AM   #2
2ras
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 417
Watts are Watts, so 500W will cost you the same. The only thing different here is the amount/type of light and less heat with T5s.


2ras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/08/2008, 12:14 PM   #3
chrissreef
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,252
electronic MH ballast will require less electricity than a magnetic MH ballast. I don't know about T5 ballasts


__________________
One's standard of living is determined by the size of their reef
Learn and you continue to adapt, stop learning and you become obsolete
We live with each other, not for ourselves, protect our planet

Current Tank Info: 300g Starfire/Starboard A.G.E. mixed reef
chrissreef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/08/2008, 12:30 PM   #4
KyleO
Premium Member
 
KyleO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brentwood, CA (SF Bay Area)
Posts: 737
Heat is the big factor as far as I am concerned.........how much electricity will go into cooling the water and/or your display room.


__________________
Enjoy every moment......you don't have nearly as many left as you think!!!

Current Tank Info: 135g Frag tank w/ attached 30ga Cube and 50ga refugium
KyleO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/08/2008, 12:39 PM   #5
JCTewks
Moved On
 
JCTewks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wilmington, Ohio
Posts: 3,040
Quote:
Originally posted by KyleO
Heat is the big factor as far as I am concerned.........how much electricity will go into cooling the water and/or your display room.
Well, the same rule applies...500 watts is 500 watts, it will all put out the same amount of heat. It's a matter of whether your tank will directly get the heat, or if it goes into the room and the AC has to deal with it


JCTewks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/08/2008, 02:25 PM   #6
ol'reefer
Registered Member
 
ol'reefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 500
500 Watts of light is not the same across the board. The ballast drives the lights and each type of ballast has it's efficacy levels. Metal halide's draw more in amps compared to a fluorescent ballast at the same lamp wattage. You will be using more electricity to drive MH vs T5's/PC's. Then you have to factor in lamp heat etc....


__________________
Rich
------------------------------------------
"Am I not destroying my enemies by making friends of them?" Abraham Lincoln

Current Tank Info: 150 gallon reef
ol'reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/08/2008, 02:27 PM   #7
pvtschultz
Registered Member
 
pvtschultz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Stallis, WI
Posts: 1,247
500 Watts of Fluorescent is not the same as 500 Watts of MH. For fluorescent ballasts, the 500 Watts is the max continuous power draw (at least for my ARO VHO e-ballast). For MH (at least Magnetic), 500 Watts will draw something like 625 Watts (125%) continuously.


pvtschultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 02:06 PM   #8
khoivo1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: snowta usa
Posts: 748
so the final is 500w mh light will cost me more than 500w t5,,,on every electric bill
if so i will just go buy t5 light,, there is no heat to worry about here in minnesota,,thanks


khoivo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 02:41 PM   #9
Jar*Head
Premium Member
 
Jar*Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,630
T-5 may be cheaper to run as far as electricity usage but the replacement cost may be more with the T-5. How much will you saved monthly with the T-5 on electricity usage. If you are using 48" bulb which is 54w each. For the 160xl. You will need around 8-10 bulbs. Each bulb will cost at the min of $22-$24. There are pro and con on everything. It is more like personal reference.


__________________
Steve
Tankless.

Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula
Jar*Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 02:42 PM   #10
tkeracer619
Registered Member

 
tkeracer619's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 17,289
MY 4X250W halides pulls 1000W of electricity give or take a few watts. I use electronic ballasts and have a Kill-A-Watt (tool for measuring watts).


__________________
Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers.
Current Tank:
Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.
tkeracer619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 06:21 PM   #11
gabe3d
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Elk Grove/Sunnyvale/Shibuya
Posts: 1,605
I've had 750watt MH and now 900watt T5 with same cooling fan and house temperature, and my tank runs 3-4 degrees cooler with the T5, so a chiller to cool the tank down is a necessity for my MH setup.


gabe3d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 06:32 PM   #12
mrme
Moved On
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 465
I like Metal Halide personally.
For me it was tricky figureing out what bulb selections i needed for a t-5 setup, and my corals simply survived.. and did not THRIVE.


mrme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 06:45 PM   #13
reefergeorge
Registered Member
 
reefergeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St Louis MO
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally posted by tkeracer619
MY 4X250W halides pulls 1000W of electricity give or take a few watts. I use electronic ballasts and have a Kill-A-Watt (tool for measuring watts).
I'm was a little shocked when I used a kill a watt meter on my 4x54 setup. It was only pulling 212 watts. Some has to be going to heat. So I guess my bulbs aren't putting out 54.
Anyone else with t5 numbers please post.


reefergeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 07:06 PM   #14
DarG
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,515
... and my tank ran warmer with with 432 watts of T5 than it does with 500 watts of halide + 160 watts of T5. The all T5 was in a pre-made fixture and the halide + T5 lighting is on an open aluminum frame. Much more effective fan cooling the open frame than the fixture that hoovered close over the top of the tank and covered most of it (and trapped a bunch more heat).

So it's not just watts or type of lighting that determines heat issues, it's also implementation of the lighting and design of the fixture/canopy/frame etc.


DarG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 07:38 PM   #15
gabe3d
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Elk Grove/Sunnyvale/Shibuya
Posts: 1,605
I have 3 660 ballast with three 80 watt bulbs on each and the pull is all different on all three. I'll have to go home and check again to tell you the number.

Both of my self made frame are all very open and nothing is enclosed, the only form of enclosing is the reflector themselves. I've tried multiple ways of using air cooling for MH and the most effective way is evaporating. I've tried directly blowing at the bulb, across the tank, and on top of the water. Turns out on top of the water is the best but evaporation is significantly more. For T5s i can blow on the filament side of the bulb and the reflector channels the air to the other end. So from my experience cooling MH is extremely harder. I can throw 100cfm on a MH bulb and there is no way i will be to touch it, on the other with T5 hand minimal cooling i can touch it.


gabe3d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 09:22 PM   #16
DarG
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,515
Because you use baby fans. I use two 6 inch fans plus a large crossflow gutted from a full size floor fan. I also rely on evaporative cooling, a good thing for allowing plenty of kalk dripping.

Besides, I didnt say that an open T5 retro setup wouldnt run cooler. I said that my open frame halide and T5 set-up is easier to cool than an 8 bulb T5 FIXTURE

Just like I stated ... it's not just watts or type of lighting that determines heat issues, it's also implementation of the lighting and design of the fixture/canopy/frame etc.


DarG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 09:36 PM   #17
gabe3d
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Elk Grove/Sunnyvale/Shibuya
Posts: 1,605
Understand what you are saying, i'm just trying to compare apples to apples and not to deviate too much from the original question. And what I'm saying is with the same conditions, ambient temp and cooling fans, which all take energy to power, i have better success with keeping the tank at a cooler temp with T5s


gabe3d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/09/2008, 11:05 PM   #18
mdbrit
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 134
If you live in Minnesota, I'd get the nice warm MH's to keep you cozy whilst watching your fish. Maybe you won't have to run the tank heater as much either? ;-)

I just bought a T5 setup as my electricity bill just keeps on going up, but the T5s use less W.


mdbrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2008, 07:54 AM   #19
burks
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 120
Will upgrading to T5's save you enough money to even make it worth it? $20 a month and it will cost you a few hundred to switch (doubt you will break even selling off the MH's).


burks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2008, 08:31 AM   #20
mdbrit
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 134
It does depend on how hot it gets in the summer. If you also add the extra room air conditioning you'd need plus perhaps the requirement of a chiller, then all of a sudden it could be a lot more.


mdbrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2008, 10:15 AM   #21
kevin gu3
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Whitmore Lk, MI
Posts: 732
I have a 400w MH on a magnetic Hamilton ballast. Plugging the ballast into my Kill a Watt, it reads 400w dead on. I don't know what other ballasts do but this one draws 400w to drive a 400w bulb.

The statement 500w is 500w is correct, the bill is the same and the real question is how much usable light you get from the 500w. Last I heard flourescents and MH were equally efficient. That means both dump equals amount of heat. If the ballast is remote its heat doesn't go into the tank, generally a good thing.

Last I heard MH with a good reflector has an edge over flourescents with a good reflector because the bulb is smaller and doesn't block as much of the reflected light that was emitted in the wrong direction.


__________________
Divert all money to life support. Your wallet will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Current Tank Info: 90g reef, 29g anemone exile tank
kevin gu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2008, 11:35 AM   #22
mdbrit
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally posted by kevin gu3
I have a 400w MH on a magnetic Hamilton ballast. Plugging the ballast into my Kill a Watt, it reads 400w dead on. I don't know what other ballasts do but this one draws 400w to drive a 400w bulb.

The statement 500w is 500w is correct, the bill is the same and the real question is how much usable light you get from the 500w. Last I heard flourescents and MH were equally efficient. That means both dump equals amount of heat. If the ballast is remote its heat doesn't go into the tank, generally a good thing.

Last I heard MH with a good reflector has an edge over flourescents with a good reflector because the bulb is smaller and doesn't block as much of the reflected light that was emitted in the wrong direction.
I agree with most of that, but I think the choice is between higher watt MHs and lower watt T5s which enable you to keep mostly the same stuff in your tank. Obviously there's a lot of variables and I'm not starting a T5vsMH thread, but each has it's own purpose.
Personally I can keep most if not all that I wish to in my tank with T5s I believe but have lower heat output. In the summer, I don't want to be running a chiller on the tank as well as additional home air conditioning which I would have to do if I went for a MH system.


mdbrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2008, 01:07 PM   #23
Mikigo
Registered Member
 
Mikigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 465
For most MH and reflectors, the light coverage is ~ 24-30". Same amount of wattage T5 may give you wider coverage depend the size of the bulb you chose. This may allow you to use less total wattage with T5s vs MH in certain tanks. I don't have experience in T5s, so please correct me if I'am wrong.


Mikigo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2008, 01:17 PM   #24
mdbrit
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 134
Exactly, my tank is 36inch wide, which would have required 2 MH's as opposed to 36inch wide T5s.
I like the way you can alter the colors with T5s with a mix of bulbs, but I'm going to miss the shimmer of MH's.
I have no room for a chiller, so I couldn't risk MHs.


mdbrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2008, 01:43 PM   #25
DarG
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,515
Quote:
Originally posted by mdbrit
Exactly, my tank is 36inch wide, which would have required 2 MH's as opposed to 36inch wide T5s.
I like the way you can alter the colors with T5s with a mix of bulbs, but I'm going to miss the shimmer of MH's.
I have no room for a chiller, so I couldn't risk MHs.
I dont know how long your tank is but you could get a 3 foot x 3 foot spread with a single halide using the large Lumenmax or Lumenarc reflectors (possibly the lumenbrite as well but im not sure, I'm not up on this newer reflector).

There is also the use of a light rail with a single halide.

Both solutions cut metal halide requirements in half in terms of heat, bulb replacement, energy bill, etc.

Again, metal halide use does not automatically equate to more heat, higher bills or any of it. Implementation can help negate some or most of the cons against metal halide.

Personally, I love the shimmer and the crispness of the light. I use T5's for supplemental color as well. My tank needs a chiller without the lighting on regardless so while my present light frame really assists in cooling the heat from the lighting, and I do use fans to help the chiller, I am not that concerned with heat from the lights these days. The chiller takes care of it.

BTW ... with the lights on the tank completely off, it has to be 67 - 68 degrees in the house (rare) for the chiller to stay off and the tank to run at 77 - 78 degrees. When it is the usual 77 or 78 degrees in the house the tank runs in the upper 80's with all lighting on. In the mid 80's with the lights off. That is with aggressive fan/ evaporative cooling. Ive run a chiller for the past nearly dozen years.


DarG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:26 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.