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Old 10/10/2007, 01:59 PM   #1
stony_corals
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Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing

After the main vodka thread, there seems to be some question as to how much to start with, a lot of FUD around causing a bloom, etc. So lets get some anecdotal experiences of users. I was interested as I saw a user that was dosing over 3x more vodka on half the size of tank. So lets hear about your detail dosing of vodka/sugar

I have a display system, it's about 120 gallons net. It's all sps, a mix of frags and colonies, 5 Tridacna clams, 7 green chromis, 4 anthias, 1 purple tang. Lit by pure T5s. I started by dosing by following the protocol set forth in the original vodka thread here. I didn't see any drop of NO3 and PO4 ( initially 10 ppm and 0 ppm respectively using LaMotte and Merck test kits) after 3 weeks. I started increasing the dosage per the article by .5ml daily. At 22ml/day, I achieved the bacteria bloom. The system was white, not to impressive for people to see! This seemed to last a couple of days. During this time both the redox and the pH decreased by 70 mv and .2 points. After the bloom cleared, I found I didn't lose anything, and started to reduce my dosing by half. Within 3 days after the bloom, my NO3 was 0ppm by lamotte. Sps lightened considerably, and I started dosing KZ aminos, and feed a lot more to my fish. All algae disappeared, with the exception of coralline. Though the coralline growth has slowed significantly. (Again, maintaining all other params consistently via a calcium reactor). I now dose a maintenance dosage of 8 ml of 80 proof vodka (Karkorov - the cheap stuff in the plastic bottle) and NO3 and PO4 are 0ppm, despite heavy feeding twice daily, and amino dosage daily. I have a BK mini 200 currently running on this.

I did notice after the dosage was getting close to the peak, that there were a lot of strands in the tank and sump. I assumed this was bacteria. Now I do dose a source of bacteria to maintain bacterial diversity in the tank.


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Old 10/11/2007, 12:27 AM   #2
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see my sig for my tank size but i started with the recommended quanities from the vodka thread and scaled them down to my water volume(30gal) . i started with .1 ml day 1-3, then went to .5 ml day 4-7,.75 ml days 8-14 and after day 14 i was up to 1ml 2 times a day....i started seeing some corals getting the pastel color look to them so i went bak to 1 ml 1 time a day and feeding my 1 fish a chromis multiple times a day... im also dosing prodibio (biokit) according to instructions and now have deeper colors and i dont have to clean my sides for atleast 6-7 days....im using some cheap 90 proof that i got from rite-aide in a plastic bottle also..my skimmer is a octopus nw110 that i just mesh modded this weekend and its pulling lots more crap out no algea except some gha on my snail that was on there b4 i started dosing..i never dosed enough vodka to get a bloom.

i tried sugar b4 i tried the vodka and i didnt like the wierd color shifts i was gettin from my corals


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Old 10/11/2007, 04:59 AM   #3
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whats the vodka - sugar equavilant??


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Old 10/11/2007, 06:06 AM   #4
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would you give me a link to the main vodka link, please?


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Old 10/11/2007, 09:40 AM   #5
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theres a link in the first thread..click on the blue "here"


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Old 10/11/2007, 09:46 AM   #6
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? what first thread- where is it?


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Old 10/11/2007, 09:59 AM   #7
sprite
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at the top in stonycorals post-"I started by dosing by following the protocol set forth in the original vodka thread here."

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...&pagenumber=21)


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Old 10/11/2007, 11:44 AM   #8
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Stony, which bacterial product/supplement are you using?


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Old 10/11/2007, 11:48 AM   #9
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When I dose vodka, I can see that all my Sps lightened considerably, but the colors not improve

Regards


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Old 10/11/2007, 11:52 AM   #10
sprite
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denadai
When I dose vodka, I can see that all my Sps lightened considerably, but the colors not improve

Regards
when i noticed mine to start getting lighter,i started feeding more to the tank..i started becuase i had a gha problem i couldnt get rid of.now i have none and i feed twice as much as i did b4.. to me its not about getting better colors its about nutrient control


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Old 10/11/2007, 12:03 PM   #11
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I read a post from an RC member that there are impurities in your standard vodka. He recommended using a higher proof/more pure alchohol/ethanol like everclear to lessen the amount of impurities. Wouldn't this also make a huge difference in the fuel for the bacteria. Is the ethanol itself the C source or is the rest of the vodka also a C source as well. Just curious the differeneces between using a more pure form of ethanol.


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Old 10/11/2007, 12:14 PM   #12
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quote from serioussnaps"Is the ethanol itself the C source or is the rest of the vodka also a C source as well. Just curious the differeneces between using a more pure form of ethanol."

i dont know about your first question but almost all post i read that i could find ppl used the cheap stuff..i missed the one you are referring to.

your second question that i quoted , that is my understanding is that the ethanol is the c source

quote from randy"The carbon source there is the alcohol (ethanol) itself, which is CH3CH2OH"


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Old 10/11/2007, 12:46 PM   #13
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my tank only gets belvedere and stoli elit

imo the key is intermitent bac additions to prevent monopop's. over time of just c dosing i developed odd bacteria growth and some filter feeders increased their growth rate considerably. to combat this i used large water changes, some prodibio bio and fresh LR to reseed and the problem went away.

i have recently began to dose again and within a day killed all the algae off in my tank. the tank looked great, but it caused my multibarred angel to get a little slim...so until he gets fat and eating more prepared foods c-dosing is on hold.


nice post stony imo with the use of prodibio, ultrabak, or kz bak.... and moderate dosing it's very manageable and is a good half way point between a full zeo or ultra system.

eric


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Old 10/11/2007, 12:50 PM   #14
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hey eric thanks nice to see you chiming in..i always enjoy reading your experiences...


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:01 PM   #15
stony_corals
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Quote:
Originally posted by dvanacker
whats the vodka - sugar equavilant??
That's the 52 million dollar question I have no idea, that's why I was hoping that sugar users would chime in about their dosing so that we can better understand dosing schedules.


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:04 PM   #16
stony_corals
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denadai
When I dose vodka, I can see that all my Sps lightened considerably, but the colors not improve

Regards
Like Sprite said, you will know when you are getting very nutrient poor (other than your test readings) your acros will turn nearly white - you aren't feeding enough. I feel that I significantly over feed, twice daily, cyclopeeze, and sweetwater zooplankton or some frozen. I also dose aminos too. My colors much improved, but it does take time for new specimins to acclimate. I had a nice poopy brown acro, that in nutrient poor with heavy feeding, it's starting to turn a deep purple, when I get my new camera I'll attempt to post a pic.


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:07 PM   #17
stony_corals
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serioussnaps
I read a post from an RC member that there are impurities in your standard vodka. He recommended using a higher proof/more pure alchohol/ethanol like everclear to lessen the amount of impurities. Wouldn't this also make a huge difference in the fuel for the bacteria. Is the ethanol itself the C source or is the rest of the vodka also a C source as well. Just curious the differeneces between using a more pure form of ethanol.
I think thats hahnmeister, I was hoping he'd put his info in here... it's the ethanol that's the C source, so if you are using everclear, you'd dose less than 80 proof. Isn't everclear 100 proof? So you'd dose 80-100/80, 1/4 less right?


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:09 PM   #18
stony_corals
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Quote:
Originally posted by kkris
Stony, which bacterial product/supplement are you using?
Since I run other systems with zeo, I'll use Zeobac. I've also used Prodibio....


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:15 PM   #19
stony_corals
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flint&Eric
my tank only gets belvedere and stoli elit

imo the key is intermitent bac additions to prevent monopop's. over time of just c dosing i developed odd bacteria growth and some filter feeders increased their growth rate considerably. to combat this i used large water changes, some prodibio bio and fresh LR to reseed and the problem went away.

i have recently began to dose again and within a day killed all the algae off in my tank. the tank looked great, but it caused my multibarred angel to get a little slim...so until he gets fat and eating more prepared foods c-dosing is on hold.


nice post stony imo with the use of prodibio, ultrabak, or kz bak.... and moderate dosing it's very manageable and is a good half way point between a full zeo or ultra system.

eric
nice eric, primo corals get nothing but primo vodka

That's why I started to add the source of bac... what I read was that vodka would only cause a mono culture of bacteria.... That can not be good. Again, this is purely anecdotal, and I saw it once - after dosing a source of bac with the vodka I didn't have all those stringy things all over the tank/sump/equipment/live rock. This could also be from an overdose too... Sounds like we experienced something similar....

Also, for dosing the bac, I just follow the manufacturers dosing instructions... Yeah, any tank with a tang that gets a C source, I feed daily something green...


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:17 PM   #20
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How many people that dose vodka use ozone on their skimmer? Wondering how much of the bacterial growth is waterborne, and perhaps then affected by the ozone. Is it a good or bad effect....


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:26 PM   #21
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Peter, Jorg recommended it in the original thread..... I'm working on it! But have no experience...


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:32 PM   #22
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in order of most effective i've found vodka>sugar>acetate

i dose accordingly per 20g of water.... .5ml vodka, a pinch of sugar (~1/5 a tbsp) and when ever i remember (~1 a week) i'd replace the vodka with vinegar.

i calculated it the carbon equivalents of each once when i was initially interested in C-dosing, but forgot the results...the above has been my experience and works well so i stick with it


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:40 PM   #23
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Eric is the acetate the same dosage level as the vodka? Do you increase the dosage per Jorg's initial recommendations or start out at the .5ml of 80 prrof vodka per 20g, net gallons I'm assuming.


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Old 10/11/2007, 01:55 PM   #24
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yes that's correct...i used it once a week max in replacement of the vodka, so .5ml of the acetate as well.

i am not sure what jorg suggests, but i started very conservative at .1ml vodka, increasing by .1ml every week until i got to 1ml...i never had a true bloom but began having issues with stringy bacteria in my skimmer and filter feeder growth...that is when i began introducing other bak strains and consistently adding sugar and acetate.

when i start my new set up i will begin with .1 ml per 20g net and work my way up to .5ml per 20 g net and probably keep it there. i will also use a RDSB and dose near the intake of the RDSB feed and stir the top layer daily...

hth

eric


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Old 10/11/2007, 02:11 PM   #25
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You can add vinegar to your lime water to help saturate it also. I've been doing it for a while now.


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