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Old 04/06/2012, 06:29 AM   #26
rainmkr07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disaster999 View Post
after several months of using this skimmer, i found some more interesting facts about it.

one major issue is the recirculation mod makes this skimmer so loud it drones throughout the entire house. i finally couldnt take it and turned it back to a regular skimmer. i could hear myself think again.

second of all, the nylon nuts that threads into the acrylic and PVC legs expands under water and makes it near impossible to unscrew or screw back into the material without having to think you are going to shear off the threads. some same material or even stainless steel thumb screws would be ideal. i wouldnt mind paying for it if it means easier maintenance
I had a screw sheer off when I tried to unscrew a leg, actually I think I was tightening it when it came off. So I had to order another screw from Avast to fix it.

As for the sound - that's my only complaint with the CS1 (also recirc) - it's amazing loud. I bought some foam mattress pad from walmart for $10 (twin size) and I cut it up and put it inside of my stand to dampen the sound, since my tank is in the living room, and it helped a lot. I recommend doing that if you can. Avast is aware their CS1 recirc is loud, hopefully they get the rubber feet going, or some other mod to get the sound down.

I am still very happy with the product however. I showed a buddy of mine what came out after just 3 days and he was very impressed (several inches of black gunk).


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Old 04/06/2012, 07:10 AM   #27
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one major issue is the recirculation mod makes this skimmer so loud it drones throughout the entire house. i finally couldnt take it and turned it back to a regular skimmer. i could hear myself think again.
Was there anything specific you could attribute the noise to? Anyone else done a before-after-before comparison?

I just recently swapped out my main sump return pump (the worst noise offender), but that was after the recirc upgrade, so I honestly have no reference.


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Old 04/06/2012, 08:25 AM   #28
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what i can think of is with the regular skimmer, the pump is held on with one rubber joint. the recirc adds another joint to the pump and that amplified how much is vibrates. also it could be the added pipe for the recirc mod creates too much turbulence, preventing the pump from getting a smooth flow of water and thus making the air sucking sound even louder.

i didnt record any comparisons, but when i only had the pump running in water it was quiet, mounted just the pump with no recirc pipe to the bottom plate and it was quiet. adding the recirc pipe reeked all sorts of havoc. it was loud and the whole skimmer shook. the silencer didnt do anything, it had a super loud sucking sound.


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Old 04/06/2012, 10:50 AM   #29
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Thanks Disaster,

The sucking silencer is easy to remedy. 1/2" Teflon tubing (ice maker tubing) slips over the inlet on the silencer. I ran mine outside to solve an excess CO2 problem and it's dead silent now.

I just did some playing around and mine is pretty quiet flipping the two pumps on and off. Two things may be driving that. (1) I have a relatively small system volume so I am using a small Sicce pump to feed the skimmer (I even used zip ties to attach it to one of the legs - a straigh shot from the pumps outlet to the 90 deg. inlet elbow supplied with the recirc kit). (2) I have a deep sump and rather than building a shelf for the skimmer to sit on, I ordered some extra long legs. Maybe they are absorbing some of the vibration you experienced?

Over all I have been happy with the conversion. Over skimming on such a small system I can't say it's really that much more efficient, however it did resolve a seemingly random problem where the skimmer would overflow on occasion (knock wood).

I will say the Sicce pumps are much quieter, but I question their specs. I replaced the Mag 3 on my ozone reactor at the same time with a Sicce rated at the same flow (and higher head). It didn't have the umph to even draw on the Venturi. Needless to say the Mag 3 is back in the sump!


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Old 04/10/2012, 09:23 PM   #30
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i did try adding a long tube to the silencer end and that quiet it somewhat, but the droning noise from the pump still remains.

i tried various depths, my sump has a 12" water level and at any level the skimmer is still very loud. i even tried to suspend it in the water and that didnt help at all. its not the vibration of the pump thats resonating through out the sump but more like the way the pump is mounted to the skimmer thats causing all the headaches. without the recirculation elbow the skimmer is almost dead silent. i should try adding just the elbow back to the pump but not connect it to the body and see if thats where the problem is.

i would of gotten the regular skimmer if it wasnt for justin convincing me to get the recirc mod. would of saved myself the headache and use the money to make a stand to elevate the skimmer.


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Old 05/21/2012, 01:54 PM   #31
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dude, it doesnt cost a lot to make a stand to elevate your skimmer...you can use large PVC fittings, eggcrate...there are options it doesnt have to be expesnive...

im considering getting the CS1, recirc, swabbie etc in the all-in-one package deal...im not sure if its enough or not enough for my tank..i have a 90g display and 25g/sump/fuge
mixed reef, slowly gettign populated with more sps, my lps are all large and may need trimmign soon


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Old 06/15/2012, 12:16 PM   #32
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Im seriously looking at this skimmer. I am interested in the black cone complete kit with swabbie and recirculating mod and davie jones locker. My only hesitation at this point is the noise factor. I realize it is a great skimmer and l love the idea of DYI. I really like to build things so thats no problem. Does anyone know if Avast has updated the skimmer silencer or if there are any mods that can accommodate the sound of the skimmer and pump. Mine would be in an inclosed cabinet in the main living area of the home. I have really tried to make choices for the system that are quiet so its not intrusive. I would like to make this purchase within the next month or two. I don't know if avast will be having a sale of any kind or if they have any updates in the works. I will also be getting two of the media reactor kits. Since it such a large purchase I just want to make sure that this really is the skimmer for me. Any more info would be helpful in making the decision. Thanks


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Old 06/18/2012, 01:38 AM   #33
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i cant recommend the recirculation mod for this skimmer. the noise the circulation mod adds is just too much to bare. the pump becomes extremely noisy and the air silencer is useless. ive tried all sorts of way to eliminate the noise but nothing seem to work. i went back to the traditional set up and everything quiet down dramatically.

i just aim the output of the biopellet directly at the skimmer intake and so far it worked out pretty good.


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Old 06/23/2012, 09:35 PM   #34
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My recirculation model is silent


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Old 06/23/2012, 10:15 PM   #35
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+1 3-months on and still smitten.


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Old 07/06/2012, 01:12 AM   #36
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question for people with quiet recirculating skimmers, did you glue every single PVC connection for the recirc mod or had them friction fitted together? thats probably the only thing i can think of for the cause of all the noise.

im pretty sure i had the rest of the skimmer assembled correctly


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Old 07/06/2012, 07:26 AM   #37
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I did not glue any of the PVC connections, just press fit. I have not really explored the reasoning behind the quietness of my setup although in the beginning it was a little bit noisy.


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Old 07/07/2012, 08:21 PM   #38
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All press fit here as well...


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Old 07/11/2012, 09:33 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by disaster999 View Post
question for people with quiet recirculating skimmers, did you glue every single PVC connection for the recirc mod or had them friction fitted together? thats probably the only thing i can think of for the cause of all the noise.

im pretty sure i had the rest of the skimmer assembled correctly

Are you using a voltage converter for 220v or a 220v pump?

Is the noise mechanical or air? You can test this by puting the air intake under water. If it is mechanical you will still here noise.

Some people have noted a quieter operation is the leg holder/stand is not used, not exactly sure why but it is worth trying.


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Old 07/23/2012, 12:19 AM   #40
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i would have to look into the recirc mod again and do more testing to see where the noise is coming from and how loud each piece will become. ill post videos as i do that.

im running a voltage converter that gives 150W of power. i dont think the converter is the culprit, i made sure all the voltage and frequency the converter gives out matches the one for the US.


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Old 11/26/2012, 01:26 PM   #41
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After all the feedback from this thread we decided implement all the requested changes. The silencer is now much higher on the skimmer, uses a larger silencer body so no more filler material is needed. The recirc kit is now included with the base kit and smoked cone is no longer an upcharge. The neck connections are now being CNC cut and are a better fit than the ones we used to produce on the lathes.

We named it "First Mates Edition" in honor of the posters in this thread, thanks for helping us make improvements to the product!

The effluent pipe assembly with the new silencer is available as a upgrade kit for those wishing to do so. http://www.avastmarine.com/ssc/do/pr...S1-Upgrade-Kit

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Old 12/29/2012, 04:06 AM   #42
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I decided to try out the CS1 Effluent Pipe Upgrade Kit since it has a larger silencer and redesigned position which solves the problem of the silencer being filled with water, espcially with recirculating mod, when the skimmer is turned off.

I wasnt particularly pleased with how they added more T fittings and extra pipe just to elevate the silencer but I still went with it. While the package is being delivered, I thought of another way of improving the overall design.

Another problem I was having with the skimmer was even with the valve all the way open, it was still not enough to calm down the skimmer during heavy feedings. I have to run the valve mostly wide open during normal operation and that was a huge pain.

I decided to fix this by lowering the gate valve so its not sitting half way up the skimmer. Also instead of adding a few T's and an extra length of pipe to elevate the silencer. I added a long piece of pipe from the gate valve and attached the silencer and valve knob. The parts finally arrived and i went to work. This is what I came up with







I think this is a much more elegant and efficient design, reducing unneeded parts and foot print of the skimmer. Basically I didnt need to use the extra length of piping or T fittings or elbows. I basically paid $33 for the silencer body itself and the glue that came with the kit. I hope Avast seriously consider this mod for their next edition of their CS-1 skimmer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of the upgrade kit, I was pretty disappointed. First of all, the fit of the parts were pretty poor. I had to heavily sand the PVC pipes in order for them to fit in the groves of the acrylic. I know there might be variations in the PVC pipes themselves but there isnt a need to machine them to such a tight tolerance especially when they will be glued later. The silencer body was a really tight fit in the groves in the acrylic as well. I had to pound the pieces together to get them to sit properly inside the grove. And in doing so, micro cracks was form on the silencer body near the edge. Also, throwing the emery cloth in a bag with unprotected acrylic parts leads to tones of micro scratches as you can see in my picture. Overall the quality seems to have degraded from last time I've bought the CS-1

Second, I was surprised it didnt come with an extra valve assembly given the kit did come with an extra "valve body" and the new acrylic plate with the threads. I email Justin about it since I cant remove my valve body because everything is glued down, but a managed to hack up my old valve and salvage the internals. Others who ordered this might not be so lucky.

Lastly, if this is an upgrade kit for those who bought the CS-1 before, and this upgrade kit is for elevating the silencer so water cant rush into it when the skimmer is off, then wouldnt it be logical to include a longer air tubing?????? Luckily I found some scrap piece of tubing and hacked apart my old silencer for the rigid tubing and made an extension. But something such as this shouldnt be missed.

Im not sure what they can do to settle these problems for me. I basically solved their problem with fixes of my own. Sending me the missing parts and replacement tubing doesnt really do me any good, nor do I just want to leave it at that.



Last edited by disaster999; 12/29/2012 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 12/31/2012, 11:07 AM   #43
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disaster,

First, the effluent pipe kit does not add any more footprint to the cs1, there is an additional tee in the assembly and the additional riser tube to elevate the silencer. We did it this way so the integrity of the original supplied valve would stay in tact, we supplied an extra tee (valve body) since this is the only part of the original cs1 kit that was supposed to be glued. The rest of the valve components easily unscrew and then can be re installed on the new valve body assembly which we provide. Also, by using the 2 tee approach it allowed us to make this available as an upgrade kit rather than simply a new feature on current skimmers.

I'm not sure I understand why having the valve all the way open causes you a huge pain, if you simply regulate the water through the skimmer, this problem goes away without the use of any tools. Lowering the valve assembly and preforming modifications to the supplied parts is definitely taking things to the extreme.

As far as fit and tolerances are concerned, all parts are machined to the smallest tolerance of the supplied mating parts, yes our machining tolerances are tighter than the manufactures tolerances of pipe and tube. We do this so final fit can be performed on the equipment during assembly. We do this 100's of times a day at the shop and it is a big part of building equipment. We only have 1 set of parts we make, those are used in here for assembling products we make and they are the same ones supplied in the kits we sell. If we were to hand fit every component that is supplied in a kit, we would finish what we started and drop a bead of glue down afterwards, meaning we wouldn't offer kits because for all intensive purposes gluing is the easy part.

I hope I am not coming across too harsh here, but how you have modified your skimmer is not in any way how the upgrade kit was intended to be implemented. I don't think you solved any problem here other than figuring out how to incorrectly put together the kit on a skimmer that was incorrectly put together in the first place. I am glad you came up with a solution though, that seems to solve the problems you had.




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Old 01/01/2013, 06:52 PM   #44
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disaster,

First, the effluent pipe kit does not add any more footprint to the cs1, there is an additional tee in the assembly and the additional riser tube to elevate the silencer. We did it this way so the integrity of the original supplied valve would stay in tact, we supplied an extra tee (valve body) since this is the only part of the original cs1 kit that was supposed to be glued. The rest of the valve components easily unscrew and then can be re installed on the new valve body assembly which we provide. Also, by using the 2 tee approach it allowed us to make this available as an upgrade kit rather than simply a new feature on current skimmers.
Yes I'm fully aware why you guys opted to go with the 2 T approach because you do not have to do anything to your tooling or resign any part of the skimmer. You are basically adding a T and a extra length of pipe. I wont spend time debating manufacturing processes and cost with you, I'm just simply stating Ive found a better solution IMO.

Gluing of the threads on the knob and valve body wasnt required as per your instructions, but was stated as a suggestion. And like you said, the PVC and acrylic swells over time being exposed to moisture so it has become extremely difficult to operate the valve without unscrewing the knob. Therefore I glued everything in place. Others might have done the same and would be left high and dry. I would suggest stating what’s included with the kit and what is to be reused.

What about the air hose not being long enough? You really expect us to do what I did and salvage the old tube from the old silencer to make an extention?

Quote:
I'm not sure I understand why having the valve all the way open causes you a huge pain, if you simply regulate the water through the skimmer, this problem goes away without the use of any tools. Lowering the valve assembly and preforming modifications to the supplied parts is definitely taking things to the extreme.
The problem I have with the valve's location is, in my situation, even with the valve all the way open, it will not create a low enough water level inside the skimmer to prevent it from exploding and overflowing. How is it normal to run the skimmer with the valve almost 100% open all the time? If modifying the skimmer to this “extreme” is the only way for it to work properly then there is a serious problem somewhere.

Quote:
As far as fit and tolerances are concerned, all parts are machined to the smallest tolerance of the supplied mating parts, yes our machining tolerances are tighter than the manufactures tolerances of pipe and tube. We do this so final fit can be performed on the equipment during assembly. We do this 100's of times a day at the shop and it is a big part of building equipment. We only have 1 set of parts we make, those are used in here for assembling products we make and they are the same ones supplied in the kits we sell. If we were to hand fit every component that is supplied in a kit, we would finish what we started and drop a bead of glue down afterwards, meaning we wouldn't offer kits because for all intensive purposes gluing is the easy part.
Again, not going to debate about manufacturing processes. Just simply stating my observations. The fit and finish from when I first got the skimmer to when I got this upgrade kit surely have dropped.

Quote:
I hope I am not coming across too harsh here, but how you have modified your skimmer is not in any way how the upgrade kit was intended to be implemented. I don't think you solved any problem here other than figuring out how to incorrectly put together the kit on a skimmer that was incorrectly put together in the first place. I am glad you came up with a solution though, that seems to solve the problems you had.

I hope you understand where I’m coming from here. Im sorry if I came out sounding like and ***, I’m not here to bash on your product, just trying to help you out like how I did by starting this thread in the first place. We wouldn’t have the upgrade kit if you guys didn’t listen. I just want to help improve an awesome product. Like I said before, if someone have to go to the “extreme” and “incorrectly” put together your product to get it to work properly, then its something that’s worth looking into. Hell, maybe its only me, everyone’s tank setup and water parameters is different. Who knows.

It was a fun process for me to reconfigure the skimmer to the way it is now and I like how most components are mostly off the shelf parts. I probably wouldn’t be able to fix my skimmer if it weren’t for that.


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Old 01/02/2013, 09:26 AM   #45
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Yes I'm fully aware why you guys opted to go with the 2 T approach because you do not have to do anything to your tooling or resign any part of the skimmer. You are basically adding a T and a extra length of pipe. I wont spend time debating manufacturing processes and cost with you, I'm just simply stating Ive found a better solution IMO.
I'm glad you found a solution that works for you. To be fair though, you didn't actually give our design a chance, you redesigned it before it even got to you.

Quote:
Gluing of the threads on the knob and valve body wasnt required as per your instructions, but was stated as a suggestion. And like you said, the PVC and acrylic swells over time being exposed to moisture so it has become extremely difficult to operate the valve without unscrewing the knob. Therefore I glued everything in place. Others might have done the same and would be left high and dry. I would suggest stating what’s included with the kit and what is to be reused.

What about the air hose not being long enough? You really expect us to do what I did and salvage the old tube from the old silencer to make an extention?
When putting together the parts for a retro kit, we simply took a cs1 off the shelf that was a display model built as per the original instructions with all original parts in tact and upgraded it to the current design. Any parts required to make that upgrade were included. If parts were modified or tubing cut shorter, it is beyond our control and beyond the scope of what we can realistically account for.

Quote:
The problem I have with the valve's location is, in my situation, even with the valve all the way open, it will not create a low enough water level inside the skimmer to prevent it from exploding and overflowing. How is it normal to run the skimmer with the valve almost 100% open all the time? If modifying the skimmer to this “extreme” is the only way for it to work properly then there is a serious problem somewhere.
Like I said, if you are getting flooding when you perform heavy feedings and you have the valve all the way open, the correct action is to regulate the water flow through the skimmer. For a recirculating skimmer, you valve back the input pump. For a non-recirc you lower the water level in your sump or raise the skimmer slightly. Someone with a smaller tank and a lighter bioload will find that the valve is almost all the way closed during normal operation. This is not abnormal operation, just the way all skimmers work when being installed on a range of tank sizes in the real world. Lowering the valve will work to solve the problem, but it is simply not the recommended solution for most folks when the alternative is very easy to perform.

Quote:
Again, not going to debate about manufacturing processes. Just simply stating my observations. The fit and finish from when I first got the skimmer to when I got this upgrade kit surely have dropped.
The fit may indeed be different, like stated it is just the nature of standard tolerances. 1/2 the time you get a perfect fit, 1/2 the time you gotta break out the sandpaper. If we machined to the other side of the tolerance (loose fit) the glue joints would be weak and ugly. I disagree wholeheartedly with the finish though, I have parts here on the shelf from the batch you received and they are machined very nicely, well within our specifications.


Quote:
I hope you understand where I’m coming from here. Im sorry if I came out sounding like and ***, I’m not here to bash on your product, just trying to help you out like how I did by starting this thread in the first place. We wouldn’t have the upgrade kit if you guys didn’t listen. I just want to help improve an awesome product. Like I said before, if someone have to go to the “extreme” and “incorrectly” put together your product to get it to work properly, then its something that’s worth looking into. Hell, maybe its only me, everyone’s tank setup and water parameters is different. Who knows.

It was a fun process for me to reconfigure the skimmer to the way it is now and I like how most components are mostly off the shelf parts. I probably wouldn’t be able to fix my skimmer if it weren’t for that.
I do understand and am happy you are posting, I just want to make it clear to others, that what you have done is well outside the standard "upgrade" and the final example is not representative of what the final upgrade will be, if built as intended. We are proud that we listen to our customers, we constantly are tweaking the designs and improving the products, some is driven by our own innovation, some is base on feedback from you guys and gals.

The only thing that even in the slightest bit upsets me about this situation is that you didn't submit a ticket on the site explaining your unique situation, you instead posted a rather negative review here as your first course of action. I understand you glued your valve together now and that your airline is too short, but if you don't at least give us the chance to know about the problem, how are we supposed to be able to do the right thing and offer to fix the problem?


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