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Old 01/16/2007, 10:49 PM   #1
douglaslindsey
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Question Pump question!!!

Last month I re-started my 135 gal reef tank that I’ve had in storage due to relocation. It has been running now for about 3 weeks. The water parameters are getting better. Ammonia 0, Nitrite .5, Nitrate 25, dkh 7.0, Alkalinity 2.51, SG 1.0265, pH 8.20 ~ 8.38, temp 76.5 ~ 77.5, Silicate 0, phosphate 0. Last weekend I just added another 65 lbs of live rock equaling a total of 130 lbs. I’m running a 40 gal sump tank with 2 – 250w heaters in it, and a Euro reef protein skimmer CS6-2. I also have a chiller running (gets hot in southern California at times), and a Knob calcium reactor. I have just added a Neptune controller to keep my pH and temp in balance. I’m also using a separate refugium tank. Ok now that you know what my setup is I can get to my question. I was running an old (5+ yrs) Little Giant return pump. Well I just replaced it with a Pan World 200 that pumps 1650 gph @ 6 head ft. I hooked it up and learned that it is to much for my overflow box to handle! I almost flooded my floor! Well I needed more circulation in my tank and didn’t want to return it so I talked to the LFS which told me to add a 2nd overflow box (CPR – both), and plumb the pump to not only your return, but also my calcium reactor, my refugium tank, and most of all get reed of my power heads (4 – Maxi Jet 900 w/wave maker) and use a “SCWD”. So the brake down of my return would be two returns – one on each side and two returns from that “SCWD”. Oh also they told me I should plumb a return line to the sump with a ball valve to make any adjustments if needed without harming the pump.

Dose anyone thing this is a good idea, or dose anyone have any better ideas? Thanks…


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Old 01/16/2007, 11:23 PM   #2
bertoni
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T-ing the output of the pump with a ball valve is the usual approach. Just put one path of the T back into the sump. I think that's what you mean?


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Old 01/17/2007, 06:42 AM   #3
douglaslindsey
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Yes, but my main question is if people have two returns comming into their sumps. I don't want to drill a new hole into my sump if I shouldn't. and also do many reefers use micron bags in their sumps? If I drill it I will have two.


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Old 01/17/2007, 07:03 AM   #4
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sounds like a lot of fun keep us posted


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Old 01/17/2007, 03:16 PM   #5
bertoni
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I don't see why you would need to drill a hole in the sump for a return at all. I don't.


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Old 01/17/2007, 06:19 PM   #6
AZDesertRat
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It can sometimes be hard to balance two overflows without getting a flushing action.


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Old 01/17/2007, 08:01 PM   #7
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What you will accomplish by doing this is cutting the output of your pump without harming it. Place your tee a few Pipe diameters up the pump outlet, place a ball valve on the tee branch, and a pipe back into the sump (over the side, or however you want) Be sure and use a smaller diameter pipe for your ball valve. If you have a 1" pump discharge, use a 1" x 3/4" reducing branch tee. That way, you have a 3/4" line off of your main discharge.

Just start up with your ball valve wide open. Close it a little at a time until your flow is how you want it.


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Old 01/17/2007, 09:27 PM   #8
douglaslindsey
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Well my sump has a half cover on it. And the current drain is drilled into it by the manufacture with a rubber grommet and a union on it. Also I was told to "T" it off by the LFS going to 3 ball valves from 1" x 3/4", with one of them pumping to my refugium, another to my calcium reactor, and the last back to my sump if I need to slow the flow down back to the tank. I did try this and my single HOB overflow box can barely handle it... It's to close to risk it. And that's with my ball valve that's going back to my sump about 95% open... Putting a million micro bubbles into it. I think that a 2nd HOB overflow box might be the answer. Any input on this issue?


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Old 01/17/2007, 11:13 PM   #9
bertoni
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Now I understand. A second overflow might help. I'd probably consider replacing the pump, although I know that's painful.


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Old 01/18/2007, 06:57 AM   #10
douglaslindsey
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The pump is new. It's a Pan World 200. It's what a dealer told me I should get, although I wanted to get a Iwaki 55 or a 70. I wasn't sure. maybe I should take it back and exchange it???


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Old 01/18/2007, 07:05 AM   #11
AZDesertRat
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A pump more closely matched to your needs will be more energy efficient and create less heat. If you are pumping the full capacity of the pump you are using the full energy demand regardless if you are returning it to the sump through a tee or into the main tank. You are also producing the full amount of heat.


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Old 01/18/2007, 07:20 AM   #12
douglaslindsey
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So how many times do you think I should turn over my tank. this pump is rated to 1745 gph @ 0' and 1650 @ 5'?


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Old 01/18/2007, 07:35 AM   #13
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How much do you want flowing through your sump and refugium and how much do you want to circulate with other methods?
On my 100G reef I use an OceanRunner 3500 return pump rated at something like 1000 GPH at 0' head, so I am probably getting something like 800 to 850 GPH after going through my chiller on the way back to the tank. This seems to work very well with my 30G sump, not too much velocity and no microbubbles.
I also have been using another 3500 for a closed loop system with a SCWD but recently got my hands on an Oceans Motions Squirt so get the full 1000 GPH there. In addition to that I use two Seios, a 820 and an 1100 for movement but will probably purchase a couple of Tunze Nano Streams soon to replace them as they are smaller and more efficient.


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Old 01/18/2007, 09:04 AM   #14
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AZ has good advice... you don't want all of your flow to go through your sump. Even for larger systems like your 135+60, you don't need more than 800-1000gal/hour flow through your sump. Make up the rest of what ever flow you want with either a closed loop system or powerheads.

What I'd consider doing is getting another return pump which would be in the 800-1000g/h range and using your powerhorse there for a closed loop system.


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Old 01/18/2007, 02:17 PM   #15
bertoni
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I would target more like 500 gph max through the sump.


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Old 01/18/2007, 03:00 PM   #16
AZDesertRat
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That pump would make a killer closed loop pump with an Oceans Motions or similar on it.
http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/?...78825257638dbd


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Old 01/18/2007, 10:10 PM   #17
douglaslindsey
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I'ed love to put an Oceans Motions on my tank, but it's not drilled. I wish I knew then what I know now about buying a tank drilled or not. Some people tell me it's to resky to get my 135g drilled.


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Old 01/18/2007, 10:12 PM   #18
douglaslindsey
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what type of external pump would you recomend for my 135?


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Old 01/24/2007, 01:17 PM   #19
draleigh
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Just find out if the glass is tempered or not. If its not drill it yourself. Easy to do - i got the bits off ebay from a guy in hong kong for $30 shipped to me and that for a 48mm and a 65 mm (1" and 1.5" size hole) and drilled my 180gal. You could also get rid of those HOB overflows then.


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Old 01/24/2007, 10:38 PM   #20
douglaslindsey
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I'm very tempted in doing so. Not sure if it's tempered or not, I'll have to see if the LFS that I bought it from 8 years ago is still in business and ask them. If so I want to drill 8 holes total. 2 internal overflow boxes, each with a drain and return, and 1 drain and 2 returns for a closed loop.


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