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Old 08/28/2007, 01:06 PM   #26
Ronan021
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Quote:
Originally posted by JetCat USA
Rockit


Ronan

I've used socks on the 180 from the GFO thread and when i drained it the other day the last 1/2" of water had a few gazillion pods in it and as i pulled rocks out the bottoms of them looked like you kicked a fire ant bed there were so many pods kicking/crawling around on them. that tank also had two spawning mandarins in it that were consuming more then their share of pods. between the socks and the Mandy's the pods still had an overwhelming population. it would therefore be my suggestion based on my personal experience that the minimal amount of micro funa that gets trapped in filter socks is so minuscule that the benefits far outweigh the loss of those very few losses.


JetCat

thanks for the reply!
those mandarins look like they should be put on a diet! lol... your tank sounds like it is much more established then mine...

so for right now
i like the idea of using one occasionally... like perhaps at the time of hoh change... blow off some detritus from the rock and from around corners in the tank let it all go into the sock... perhaps run it for a little til tank clears up then remove it...

in the long run
i think i am definitely going to consider using one full time... might even just start incorporating it slowly... use it for few days at time etc

thanks again and regards!

ps that was a great post on the gfo... you got my vote on that one!


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Old 08/28/2007, 01:22 PM   #27
JetCat USA
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ronan021

ps that was a great post on the gfo... you got my vote on that one!
Thanks, need all the votes it can get.


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Old 08/28/2007, 03:33 PM   #28
lvreefer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ronan021
JetCat
so for right now
i like the idea of using one occasionally... like perhaps at the time of hoh change... blow off some detritus from the rock and from around corners in the tank let it all go into the sock... perhaps run it for a little til tank clears up then remove it...
Exactly. Install the sock, blow detritis with baster or power head, let it skim off, repeat until happy, then perform H2O change. Works great!!


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Old 08/29/2007, 09:06 AM   #29
barjam
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I love to run without a sock I get detritus in my cheato. It usually isn't too bad but I rearranged my rockwork a few weeks back and I am still blowing tons of it. I suspect I will have to run socks for quite a while to get that all stabalized.


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Old 08/29/2007, 11:07 AM   #30
Serioussnaps
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Filter socks and waterchanges go together like peanut butter and jelly baby!


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Old 08/29/2007, 01:35 PM   #31
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I believe there are two disadvantages of using filter socks.

1)Lots of flow goes through the filter sock in just one hour and when detritus traps in it, due to the pressure they get mixed into the water before you clean the filter sock.

2) Detritus and planktons get trapped in the filter sock. Although this is the purpose of filter socks, detritus is used by many organisms like corals, anemones, tube worms, fish, clams, etc. Since its quite impossible to provide a tank with enough micro foods all the time, at least I prefer the existing ones to stay and not taken away by a filter sock.

I dont think floating detritus is a problem for a healthy reef tank, since they are used by filter feeders.


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Old 08/29/2007, 05:10 PM   #32
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I don't want to hijack this thread either, but what about for a new system say 3-5 weeks old with a standard LFS sump with built-in sock holders/refugium and compartment for sponge and another for the return/skimmer?

Another reefer recommended perhaps removing all sponge media and the socks until the tank is established. In this case, we're talking about a fairly new 70 gallion reef. My nitrates are around 15 -- I'd like to see them at zero.

Maybe someone should post a poll?


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Old 08/29/2007, 07:55 PM   #33
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I think I will try to rinse out any pods in my filter socks when changing every 2-3 days.The tank seems to stay much cleaner and clear with the use of the socks vs. without.


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Old 08/29/2007, 09:23 PM   #34
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I agree 100% with Dover101. I do my best to save teh pods when I do my cleaning, but with my great water conditions, I wouldn't want to go without using socks!!


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Old 08/29/2007, 09:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by ozadars
I believe there are two disadvantages of using filter socks.

1)Lots of flow goes through the filter sock in just one hour and when detritus traps in it, due to the pressure they get mixed into the water before you clean the filter sock.

2) Detritus and planktons get trapped in the filter sock. Although this is the purpose of filter socks, detritus is used by many organisms like corals, anemones, tube worms, fish, clams, etc. Since its quite impossible to provide a tank with enough micro foods all the time, at least I prefer the existing ones to stay and not taken away by a filter sock.

I dont think floating detritus is a problem for a healthy reef tank, since they are used by filter feeders.

I would agree that some good stuff does get caught, but if you think that the socks remove all or most of the detritus I think you may be worng. Take your hand or a powerhead and make some waves go across the rocks and corals in your tank and look at how much detritus gets kicked up. When you do feedings, you can do this with your pumps off and then it will feed your corals when you feed your fish whatever you feed them. Then when you turn your pumps back on the socks will catch whatever garbage is in the water column.

Nothing personal just my 2 cents.


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Old 08/30/2007, 01:32 PM   #36
honda2sk
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I have several tanks. Some of the tanks used to have mechanical filters in place and others did not. I saw NO difference in water clarity. That being said, the tanks WITHOUT the socks I always had HUGE populations of feather dusters come out of nowhere and thrive in the tank. The ones with the filters had much less (if any) feather dusters.

But the main point is I saw no difference in the clarity of water with and without the mech. filters. I have since removed all the filters except for one tank that uses bioballs as the main biological filter.


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Old 08/30/2007, 02:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by honda2sk
I have several tanks. Some of the tanks used to have mechanical filters in place and others did not. I saw NO difference in water clarity. That being said, the tanks WITHOUT the socks I always had HUGE populations of feather dusters come out of nowhere and thrive in the tank. The ones with the filters had much less (if any) feather dusters.
there are many things that contribute to the proliferation of the small feather dusters, the sock i can assure you wasn't the deciding factor. as mentioned earlier in this thread i had socks on the 180g tank that was the subject of the GFO/PO4 test and this is a pic from that tank.....

[img]http://i18.*******.com/61xraj8.jpg[/img]

the rock work was even more so covered with them.


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Old 08/31/2007, 09:08 AM   #38
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Here is my experience:

I had my newly established 120 without filter socks for three months. I have an ev180 on one side of the sump, a refugium with Chaeto and miracle mud on the other and a phosban reactor in the middle return section.

The water was not as clear as it could be, and there was a little nuisance algae growth on the rocks/in the sand bed. There is a large enough"cleanup crew" in the tank, as well as two tangs.

A few weeks ago I added a 7 inch filter sock/bracket from Dr Foster/Smith on the skimmer side of the sump. The refugium side is sockless.

The water is now totally clear, and the algae growth has receded.

I do have to change the sock every three days, when the water level rises in the sock to almost overflowing. It only takes a minute to swap the socks, and the dirty one goes into the wash machin on rinse/spin cycle two or three times until it is white again. Then hang to air dry.

I have thought about adding a 4 inch sock to the refugium side, to control dirt build up in the miracle mud. We'll see. . .

I have to clean to orp probe and check on the skimmer and add two part solution every few days so taking a minute to swap socks really is not an inconvenience. Everything else is automated and I have not done water changes, so I don't feel like the maintenence is a chore.


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Old 08/31/2007, 05:48 PM   #39
JetCat USA
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heck i like em so much i got another order in today of 10


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Old 08/31/2007, 07:43 PM   #40
sherm71tank
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You like your socks almost as much as I do!


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Old 08/31/2007, 09:13 PM   #41
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As far as I understand the NO3 buildup from using the socks may not be due entirely to the build up of detritus - as the water becomes aerated in the sock, very efficient aerobic bacteria colonize the sock, and you have in effect created a wet dry filter - and as we know the aerobic bacteria in a wet/dry will crank out NO3. Thay being said, I run socks on all my systems, I find without it I get a light buildup of detritus on my corals. I do change them at least once a day, in my mind this is not allowing the aerobic bacteria to reach certain levels, and none of my systems have NO3 in a measurable range.


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Old 08/31/2007, 09:18 PM   #42
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if there is no detritus in the socks to break down there's nothing for it to turn into NO3 same with the wet/dry. you can't make NO3 without Amm/NO2 to start with.


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Old 09/01/2007, 07:36 AM   #43
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Pro-socks too: I guess, it's setup and type of the tank dependent. My oversized skimmer is not good in capturing particles, and they settle in the sump or return in the tank - it's not theory, I can see it...
With micron sock, changed daily, the tank is cleaner. After reading threads about Calfo's overflows and making skimmer work productive, did almost all improvements and tried for a months without micron sock. With sock was better, IMHO.

Pods loss: no pod alive goes there, the scooter takes care of it


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Old 09/01/2007, 09:31 PM   #44
Lifes A Beach
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What is better: 100 or 200 micron sock?


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Old 09/01/2007, 09:45 PM   #45
JetCat USA
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the lower the micron the more often you need to change them. anything less then 400 should do the trick of clearing up most particulate matter.


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Old 09/01/2007, 10:01 PM   #46
sherm71tank
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That and the longer you let them run the finer they filter. I find 100 micron works very well for me.


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Old 09/02/2007, 02:29 PM   #47
Lifes A Beach
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Should the sock hang in the water or out?


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Old 09/02/2007, 03:09 PM   #48
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the top ring needs to be out of the water, the rest is optional


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Old 09/03/2007, 05:33 AM   #49
dendro982
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Quote:
What is better: 100 or 200 micron sock?
I'm using usually 100 micron, sometimes after cleaning tank - 50 micron overnight, and in the tank without skimmer and heavy feeding - original Coralife filter pad, it's very fine, should be removed after hours in my systems.

But: I had heard that there are micron socks 5 and 1 micron - they should clean very well in gravity fed sump (mine is not). I used 5 micron Quick Filter attachment to AC powerhead and diatom filter, filtering down to 1 micron - the water becomes clear, small particles are removed very well.

Quote:
Should the sock hang in the water or out?
I'm using DIY bags, made from Coralife filter pads, the top is out of water, otherwise the dirty water is bypassing the bag and overflows through the top (but my side sump is a connected vessel, not gravity fed).


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Old 09/03/2007, 08:11 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by dendro982
I'm using DIY bags, made from Coralife filter pads
I have the 50 micron pads from Coralife that I've used as a flat pad in my filter tray in the wet/dry. How are you making a bag out of them?


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