Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > New to the Hobby
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 12/20/2007, 12:28 PM   #1
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
Exclamation I think I killed my first Salt Water Fish

Hi Everyone,

I have some bad news. I think I killed my cleaner shrimp by accident. The tank is not new but I just transferred it from my LFS to my home last week. I was wondering why my shrimp hasn't moved and when I moved the live rock... it floated. I looked at it closely... and yes... his legs were broken.

I am going to go get some testing kits to check my water levels. I was wondering... what can I do to save my clown fish and my hermit crab? I don't know if my hermit crab will survive because he hasn't moved either! Ugh... I am really upset at myself. What can i do? Should I change 50% of the water because of the shrimp?

I know my clown fish has been stressed out but the good thing is that he has barely shown interest in eating. He hasn't eaten much but it's a start.

Please help... and those that do... thank you so much. I'm such a bad mommy.

Claudia


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 12:30 PM   #2
auntynatal
Registered Member
 
auntynatal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 173
How long has the tank been set up? Did you let it cycle? Did you slowly acclimatise these creatures to your tank salinity?


__________________
“Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant?? I'm halfway through my fish burger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow learner.”



“No good fish goes anywhere without a porpoise”

Current Tank Info: 55g, 50 lbs live rock, 40lbs live sand, xenias, mushrooms, medusa, sponge, boxing, cleaner and peppermint shrimps, flame angelfish, pyjama fish, spotted peacock wrasse and two clownfish, crabs and snails!
auntynatal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 12:33 PM   #3
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
The thing is... my LFS guy told me that I didn't have to acclimate the fish because the water they came with was fine. I didn't have to add in new water. The tank was cycled before I got it. I had my eye on the tank for 3 months and as far as I'm concerned... the tank has been set up for 6 months now.


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 12:42 PM   #4
sunfish11
Premium Member
 
sunfish11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Weyauwega, WI
Posts: 2,365
Quote:
Originally posted by OMORDN
The thing is... my LFS guy told me that I didn't have to acclimate the fish because the water they came with was fine. I didn't have to add in new water. The tank was cycled before I got it. I had my eye on the tank for 3 months and as far as I'm concerned... the tank has been set up for 6 months now.
Wow! Bad advice. It doesn't matter if his water is "fine" or not. It isn't the same as yours, and that is why you acclimate. Shrimp are very sensitive to changes in salinity and water quality. They can die within minutes of being dropped into a new tank if not acclimated properly. It is amazing how fast they can go. Thier cells basically explode. Shrimp are very vulnerable while motling or right after a molt as well and if they are going to die they often succumb during the molting process.

Never add water from an LFS to your tank. A lot of LFS run copper in their fish systems. Besides that it is just a bad idea.

Lisa


sunfish11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 12:50 PM   #5
Caragol
Registered Member
 
Caragol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,567
Are you sure the shrimp is dead? Or just a molt the shrimp left behind? Did it look more translucent than normal and was it hollow?


Caragol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 12:51 PM   #6
dsn112
Premium Member
 
dsn112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,139
Fish are hardier and can take a dump in much better than an invert. The shrimp would have needed atleast a drip acclimation of minimum and hour. If you dumped the shrimp right in, that is most likely why it died.

Don't listen to the LFS! You shouldnt be adding livestock if your not testing your water. I tested my water everyother day for a month before I was sure my cycle was over and I could add fish. I

Patience is a virtue, especially in this expensive hobby


__________________
I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I got it
all!!

Current Tank Info: Fluval Edge w LED freshwater. Looking at doing a 20-40g long penninsula fowlr soon
dsn112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 02:02 PM   #7
Bono
Registered Member
 
Bono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lakewood Ranch Fl.
Posts: 872
Like Caragol said it might just be molting.


__________________
Living it up in Florida

Current Tank Info: 210 gal, 300lbs LR, Aquamaxx Skimmer, 3x Reefbreeders LED's & T5's.
Bono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 02:21 PM   #8
Caragol
Registered Member
 
Caragol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,567
This image is stolen from the first picture that came up in Google Image Search, so I apologize to anyone it belongs to if it's a problem.

At any rate, the molt can look just like the shrimp or crab itself, which is sort of the point, it serves as a distraction while the shrimp's new exoskeleton hardens.

In this picture, the molt is up front and the shrimp is hiding in the back:



Caragol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 03:02 PM   #9
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
Hey Guys,

I am pretty confident my shrimp is dead. It was floating upside down. Also, my tank is pretty small so I would have been able to tell whether it was molting or not. As far as the water, I can understand. The thing is, my LFS guy told me I shouldn't have to acclimate if I still had enough of my water. I bought the tank as a whole. I didn't have to cycle the tank because he had already done it. Like I said before, I had my eye on the small tank for about 3 months before I purchased it.

FYI, both my shrimp and hermit crab are dead. Before I try adding in another coral reef shrimp or anything of the sort, what should I be doing now? I don't want to lose my clown fish. I tested my waters and this is what I got:

pH between 7.8-8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 80

I haven't gotten a salinity test. I went to look for one but hte place I went to did not have it. I have to search again.

Thanks.


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 03:08 PM   #10
Caragol
Registered Member
 
Caragol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,567
You need to start changing more water out, your nitrates are too high. Do you not have a way of measuring salinity? I'd suggest running to a local petsmart and grabbing a cheap hydrometer for now.

What are you using for water? Tap water or are you purchasing water from your LFS?


Caragol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 03:09 PM   #11
kau_cinta_ku
Moved On
 
kau_cinta_ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 8,669
you need to get the nitrates down big time. inverts such as snails, crabs, shrimp are very sensitive to them. and also the LFS is wrong about not having to acculimate them. acculimate all your fish, inverts and corals. no matter what.


kau_cinta_ku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 03:10 PM   #12
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
I'll go to my local petsmart and see if I can find that hydrometer. As far as water, my LFS gave me some of his salt water so I can use that. How much water change? Do I do this with a syphon? Do I have to acclimate since my clown fish is there and perhaps still stressed out? Oh, and I can also use filtered tap water if that's better since I know that my tank still has some salt in there.


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 03:16 PM   #13
kau_cinta_ku
Moved On
 
kau_cinta_ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 8,669
what do you want to use filtered tap water for? your water changes?


kau_cinta_ku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 03:21 PM   #14
Caragol
Registered Member
 
Caragol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,567
Did he give you freshly made saltwater, or saltwater from a tank? If it's freshly made saltwater then you're good. How old is it and what are you storing it in?

What's you'll need is to purchase some salt, PetSmart is pretty cheap, if you go to petsmart.com and print out the price of Instant Ocean online they'll pricematch it in the store. That can save you some money.

You'll want to mix that with filtered water. One half cup to a gallon generally. If you don't have an RO/DI unit to filter it, then it's best to purchase RO/DI filtered water from an LFS, it'll probably run you about 50 cents a gallon. If you can't get it there, then see if your local grocery store has one of those big water filtration units. The water filtration units aren't great, but they're better than tap. If you have to use tap or a drinking water filter, buy some Prime from PetSmart or your LFS as well to help neutralize some of the chlorine and other junk in the water. Mix it well and let it sit overnight before adding to your tank. Measure it to make sure it's within the proper range and that it's close to the salinity in your tank.

If your clown is in the tank already, he should be OK if you can get the nitrates down. You can remove the water however you want, scoop it out with a pitcher, or use a siphon. It's best to get your water to the same temperature as your tank but if you don't have a spare heater, just add it back a little at a time.

I'd start with five gallons, it's not much but it will be easy on the inhabitants and get you used to changing water. Make sure not to expose the heater if it's submerged, they can get damaged that way. If you're successful, then I'd look into doing a couple of 15 gallon changes spaced a few days apart. Each 15 gallon change will cut your nitrates in half. So 80ppm to 40ppm on the first, then 40 to 20ppm on the next. Once you're at around 20, I'd say do weekly 10g changes for a while until it's down much lower. After time, weekly 5 gallon changes would be great to keep it low.

Also, what, how much and how often are you feeding the clown?


Caragol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 03:24 PM   #15
dsn112
Premium Member
 
dsn112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,139
I suggest you take the livestock that is alive back to the lfs and get down to reading some books and the new to saltwater info at the top of this forum.

Not trying to be negative or an A**, but your panicking over this and you could have easily averted it by studying up first. Having a reef tank is great, but without the basic knowledge you can easily dump a ton of money down the drain, and kill a bunch of little creatures.

Again sorry if you think this is rash, but it might help to step back and go about it the right way.


__________________
I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I got it
all!!

Current Tank Info: Fluval Edge w LED freshwater. Looking at doing a 20-40g long penninsula fowlr soon
dsn112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 03:32 PM   #16
Caragol
Registered Member
 
Caragol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,567
I don't know if I would go as far as to take the clown back. Some LFS's don't want them back and another move may just stress it out more. If she can get her water cleaned up a bit and the fish eating she should be fine. If it seems like too much, then, yeah take it back for now. It sounds like you've got a lot of reading ahead of you Claudia, but there are tons of great resources here on this site and all over the Internet. It's overwhelming at first, but once you get it figured out, it's not so hard.

What equipment do you have? What kind of test kit, tank? What are you using for a filter or is it built into the tank?


Caragol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 04:09 PM   #17
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
Hi you Guys.

Thank you for your concerns and I really am appreciating the advise. Trust me, I like constructive critisicsm. Normally, I wanted to start a 28gallon saltwater tank so I did some research on it and what was the equipment needed. Of course, because of money issues I didn't do it so I settled with a freshwater tank. I'd like to say that I am pretty knowledgeable with this hobby.

The reason why I am here is for second advice. I am not worked up over this but I get sensitive when I see that an animal dies within my reach. Ah... enough of that...

Anyways, my LFS did give me some salt water (not from the tank!). I have one gallon of this salt water stored. I have it in my closet where the light does not reach it. I had an idea that I was going to have to do some water changes but my question how much? I think 10% is not enough... maybe 50%?

I have the Master Test Kit. The filter was just an idea. Maybe an option? I have a filter connected to my refrigerator.

It sucks to say but I had a feeling my LFS guy was giving me bad advice but I went ahead and listened to him. I'd figure, "hey, he has more years of experience in this hobby so he SHOULD know more than myself."

Claudia


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 04:10 PM   #18
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
Oh, I forgot two things. My tank is pretty small (maybe 2 liters) and it has its own filter (modified one to fit in the tank).


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 04:14 PM   #19
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
Oh! Lol. I feed the clown fish once every day. He has had somewhat of an appetite.


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 04:30 PM   #20
J-Burns
Registered Member
 
J-Burns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 235
2 Liter ? That is the size of a pop bottle. If it is that small I would not keep a fish.


J-Burns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 04:33 PM   #21
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
May I ask why? This tank was running really well for about 6 months before I bought it. I'm just curious.


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 05:09 PM   #22
kau_cinta_ku
Moved On
 
kau_cinta_ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 8,669
fish need more room to swim. for 1 clown you will need at least 10 gal. and that is for a percula. even a cleaner shrimp I think is to big for that size. a tank that size is like you living in a 3' x 3' bathroom your whole life.

that small of a tank is just gonna cause you problems as if anything goes wrong it is gonna happen faster than you can even know what happened and get it fixed.

ppl beginning in this hobby should start off with bigger tanks (55gal. or more) that way they get the hang of things and if something starts to go wrong you will at least have a little more warning.


kau_cinta_ku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 05:41 PM   #23
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
I was afraid it would come to this. I kept hearing about how one should start with at least a 30gallon tank and so on. Honestly, the only reason why I got this tank is because I kept seeing on how good of a condition the tank was. Maybe when I get more money I can start another tank and cycle it and move the clown fish there. Perhaps a 10 gallon tank.. whatever I can afford and have room for.

Thanks.


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 05:58 PM   #24
kau_cinta_ku
Moved On
 
kau_cinta_ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NW Iowa
Posts: 8,669
keeping that fish in the tank longer is just gonna kill it. it prob. isn't what you want to hear but what you are doing is stunning the fishes growth. however their internal organs keep growing and when the fish can't grow on the outside it will kill them when their internal organs don't have anymore room to grow.

IMHO I would really take the fish back to the LFS until you can get a tank that fits it's requirements properly.

and also I am not flaming you or anything, just watching out for the animals that can't tell you whats wrong.


kau_cinta_ku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/20/2007, 06:29 PM   #25
OMORDN
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 23
Hello,

Don't worry about it. I am an animal enthusiast as well. I currently own 4 dogs, 1 ferret, and a 30g community freshwater tank. I just made the stupid mistake in trusting my LFS with the saltwater tank. I bought it for my partner for xmas. I am looking into getting a 10g now for the little guy and perhaps buy some live rock and sand from another LFS.

Thanks again. No hard feelings.


OMORDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:36 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.