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Old 01/02/2008, 12:48 AM   #1
belikethomas
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whole tank wiped out over night...

hey everyone,

i have a 92 gallon corner tank filled with live rock and i had

1 clown trigger
1 lunas wrasse
1 clarki clown
1 damsel
2 chromis

i went to my lfs and got 15 gallons of salt water to change in my tank. after cleaning my tank and doing the water change, i noticed that my water was a bit more cloudy than usual, but didnt think twice about it. i woke up the next morning and all of my fish were dead.

does anyone know what might have happened? i am wondering if maybe they gave me freshwater instead of saltwater, but i dont think that it would do that much harm so quickly. my tank has been up and running for about a year and half and i do water changes every few weeks. i have never had anything ike this happen to me in my past 6 years i nthe hobby. i havent went to my lfs yet because i have been busy at work, but i feel like they had something to do with the death of my fish.


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Old 01/02/2008, 01:34 AM   #2
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what were your parameters, and what is your salinity? If it was a lil cloudy, you might have oversalted your fish. My water jugs look cloudy when the salinity hits about 1.040. But without your exact salinity, I cant be sure.


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Old 01/02/2008, 07:27 AM   #3
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Have you tested any of your water parameters? Sorry about the loss of your fish, that is really sad.


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Old 01/02/2008, 09:40 AM   #4
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Sounds like something toxic got into the water.Do you run carbon in your filteration?Also maybe the ph went crazy that will kill fish quickly.Sorry for your loss.


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Old 01/02/2008, 01:13 PM   #5
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Re: whole tank wiped out over night...

Quote:
Originally posted by belikethomas
hey everyone,

i have a 92 gallon corner tank filled with live rock and i had

1 clown trigger
1 lunas wrasse
1 clarki clown
1 damsel
2 chromis

i went to my lfs and got 15 gallons of salt water to change in my tank. after cleaning my tank and doing the water change, i noticed that my water was a bit more cloudy than usual, but didnt think twice about it. i woke up the next morning and all of my fish were dead.

does anyone know what might have happened? i am wondering if maybe they gave me freshwater instead of saltwater, but i dont think that it would do that much harm so quickly. my tank has been up and running for about a year and half and i do water changes every few weeks. i have never had anything ike this happen to me in my past 6 years i nthe hobby. i havent went to my lfs yet because i have been busy at work, but i feel like they had something to do with the death of my fish.
Those are some tough fish, I would seriously doubt that 15 gallons of fresh water would hurt your fish. Now oversalting is a more likely senario. Did they die with open mouths? Oversalting, chlorine contamination, ammonia, would result with simular symtoms since they basically suffocate the fish.


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Old 01/02/2008, 01:52 PM   #6
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Sounds like you might have some "beef" with your LFS


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Old 01/02/2008, 08:05 PM   #7
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you buy premixed salt water from your lfs?
thats a new one on me.


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Old 01/02/2008, 08:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carnavor180
you buy premixed salt water from your lfs?
thats a new one on me.

Really, I buy all the time from my LFS about 10 gallons every 10 days for my 75 gallon. 'just easier than mixing my own, plus gives you a reason to see whats new.


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Old 01/03/2008, 07:35 AM   #9
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I do, as well. Their tanks look great, and they sell it at a reasonable price. I buy the same water they mix for their tanks. They have an RO/DI system, and I don't. I have filtered water, but not sure it is good enough to mix my salt. I use the water at home for top-off, do changes with the water I get from the LFS. It does get expensive over time, so I need to determine whether my GE Smartwater system is good enough for my FOWLRs (http://www.geappliances.com/smartwat...fs.htm?GXSL55F) or if I need to install an RO/DI.


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Old 01/03/2008, 10:33 AM   #10
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Sorry to hear that. Hope you find out what happened


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Old 01/03/2008, 12:02 PM   #11
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my salinity is still at 1.024, i have tested it a few times since the massacre. my water has cleared up now, but i have this weird slime built up around the edges of my tank at the top near he water line. i dont know what happened, but hopefully this wont ever happen to me again. i am gonna do a major water change this weekend and see if i can start things all over. thanks for the replies...


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Old 01/03/2008, 02:03 PM   #12
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It reads to me that there was something toxic in the water or jugs.

When you say cloudy, do you mean like scherlling line cloudy or like bacterial bloom cloudy.

Your weird slime build up sounds like soap or a chemical.

Since you now have clean up duty, I would drain the tank, clean, rinse, and refill w/ freshwater to ensure you've removed whatever is in the water and or substrate. Then add your saltwater + carbon.

At a minimum i wouldn't add any fish to this water you currently have n there.


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Old 01/03/2008, 03:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by FMarini
It reads to me that there was something toxic in the water or jugs.

When you say cloudy, do you mean like scherlling line cloudy or like bacterial bloom cloudy.

Your weird slime build up sounds like soap or a chemical.
I was also thinking a soap of some kind.

belikethomas, do you use Purell or any of those kinds of alcohol-based hand rinses? I've seen a couple of tanks that have had mysterious overnight crashes like this and the only thing that could be traced back that was similar in all of them was the use of these rinses.

Dave


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Old 01/03/2008, 10:10 PM   #14
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i dont use any of those types of hand rinses, that is why i am so baffled by this. i have always done my water changes the same way and for some reason i have had this tragedy happen to me.

i have even thought that maybe my wife put something in my tank because i spend so much time with my fish...j/k

well, on saturday i will be draining my tank and starting all over.


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Old 01/04/2008, 06:57 AM   #15
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This is another reason why you should be making your own SW. I know you trust youe LFS, but maybe you shouldnt for such an Item. Personally, my LFS I feel I can trust, but he mixes his sw up to 1.022. And then theres things like this. Now if I needed a bunch in a pinch......


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Old 01/04/2008, 10:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by belikethomas
i dont use any of those types of hand rinses, that is why i am so baffled by this. i have always done my water changes the same way and for some reason i have had this tragedy happen to me.
The problem is that you don't know if anyone at your LFS does use them. Or if they had washed the bucket for some reason. Or if something accidently got into the water (either at their end or your end). One thing I would do is let them know this happened. They probably won't do anything about it (but they might), but if several people had problems around the same time, that would be a clue that something happened in their mixes.

Dave


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Old 01/04/2008, 11:53 AM   #17
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I think somebody needs to ask if the tank had any survivors. Apparently, all the fish died. Were there any invertebrates and did any survive?

Jay


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Old 01/04/2008, 11:56 AM   #18
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You didnt use a washcloth or allow any of your shirt to get into the tank did you. I know fabric softners are toxic, might have been residue on your shirt. It happened to me.


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Old 01/05/2008, 09:59 AM   #19
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So Sorry to here that sounds like some kind of Poison in the Water,did anyone spray anything in the room lately.?


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Old 01/07/2008, 12:33 AM   #20
belikethomas
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well i went to my lfs and had told them what happened and they wanted to help me figure out what happened. i tested my water and my salinity is at 1.024, my ph and nitrates are almost at 0. still dont know what happened. i have been going to his store fro a while and have full trust in them.

on another note, i know have a build up on the top of my water line (seems to be like protein build up or something). this is new to my tank as well, anyone know how to get rid of this problem. i clear the surface of the water it only takes a day to build right back up. after i went from a reef tank to a fish only tank i stop running my skimmer and have had no issues like this for over a year.


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Old 01/07/2008, 10:46 AM   #21
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I hope the ph isn't at 0.......that will eat your hand off. How was the ph?


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Old 01/07/2008, 11:50 AM   #22
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The film at the surface is a build up of organics from a lack of surface agitation and filtration. Does the FOWLR have less circulation and/or no sump as to when the tank was a reef? Why did you choose to stop running the skimmer btw?

Also, did anything else in the tank die, inverts or corals? I think you should able to see pod bodies floating around....


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Old 01/07/2008, 04:24 PM   #23
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I would suspect suffocation. Due to no reverse light cycle, heavy stocking, and poor airation. If your not running a sump/fuge, wetdry or something that is giving good surface agitation, and you are heavily stocked, especially with a tight house. This can happen after the lights go out. The tank is not getting enough oxygen exchange. The lights cause algea etc. to create oxygen, your funace is running, potentialy using oxygen, the house is too tight and CO2 is more dominant at night. Because the tank is not creating oxygen at night, your fish suffocate. Having a DSB plays a factor also. If you have one, it's also possible that you stirred it up, with the water change. Potentially releasing sulfur. I forget the actual process, but it is likely part of the cause. If you have a 2in sugar sized SB it could be part of the problem also. Your tank may test all fine now, but I'd put my money on suffocation. Maybe Steven Pro wrote the article I'm thinking of that discused the different processes. Berlin and some other French dude. You need the airation. The skimmer could have helped this situation out. If this is what happened.


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Old 01/08/2008, 05:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by wattsupdoc
I would suspect suffocation. Due to no reverse light cycle, heavy stocking, and poor airation
I understand the thinking here, and that can certainly wipe out tanks, but I'm not convinced that's what went on here. The fact that the water he added seemed different than usual and the suddenly the next morning all the fish were dead would lead one to believe that there was something about the water that did it.

I'm still thinking it was some type of soap or detergent, and I'm betting that's what was built up on the surface, not the usual organics that we see. It wouldn't change anything in the test results either.

Dave


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Old 01/08/2008, 11:01 PM   #25
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I agree, the water is compelling. But if there where some detergent in it surely he would have noticed at least one surface bubble. If there was enough to cloud the water antways. It is apparent that the tank doesnt have a lot of surface agitation. Thats why the scums there. He said he stopped using the skimmer, which would have increased oxygen levels in the tank. I dont understand the logic behind discontinuing the skimmer. I think personally, but not entirely so, that organics built up in the SB. If theres not a lot of natural shifting of the SB, they would be a ticking bomb. The water change disturbed the bed. Thats where the scum came from. He stated that it was "more cloudier than usual", so evidently he does stir some things up when he does a water change.

How much flow do you have in this tank? Do you have a lot of sand dwelling creatures to stir/shift it around? What type of SB is it? Size of grains, depth, actual type of sand. Did you do the change just a little prior to lights out? Do you disturb ther SB much when doing a change? Describe exactly how you do the change.

By the way, I was thinking of Jaubert, not what he has, but thats what I was thinking. Also Julian Sprung was the author I was thinking of. Still though, the suffucation possibility applies to all with NNR SB. And it would happen over night. //additionally, I believe he may have noticed the fish getting ooverly stressed out right after the change if the new water weas the cas.

I dunno, just trying to invoke thought, so the cause might be nailed down.


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