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Old 08/30/2007, 12:35 AM   #1
Albright
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My 1165 Gallon in-wall Display Tank project

Hi everyone!

I have finally started the construction of my "dream tank" and as I have learned a LOT simply by reading and examining what has and hasn't worked for others on here I wanted to bring everyone along for the ride.

A number of parts of the plan are still somewhat up in the air and I am VERY open to advice and being critiqued. I am by no means an expert on everything and always appreciate someone lending some hard learned advice. So please, feel free to let me know if I am approaching something wrong.

Viewing Room: The display tank will be an in wall setup viewable from the front only from a "general purpose / hang out" room in my basement.

Fish Room: 27' x 12' dedicated room in finished basement. The display tank will be fully housed in this room. It will also contain all related equipment including filtration equipment, the RO/DI unit & storage, water change tanks, etc. There will be a centrally located floor drain in case of emergencies and with access designed to drain large quantities of water during water changes or other maintenance. A large basin sink will be installed with two faucets. One will provide tap water while the second will provide RO/DI water. I have never seen this done before. Is there any issue with running the RO/DI through a faucet assuming of course that the plumbing, fixtures, etc. are PVC? I hope to have a complete layout done this weekend and will surely post it once it is. The walls will be finished with green board and the furnace seen in the pics below is being moved out of this room.

Display Tank: 120" long x 66" deep x 34" high = 1165 gallons. It will be constructed of acrylic. Builder is not yet decided on but I am leaning heavily towards one which I have heard many good things about and has been helpful so far. Unfortunately I have just learned that 1" black acrylic isn't the cheapest material around so the back may very well end up being transparent. With the depth of 66" however I don't think this will be that large of an issue. I plan to keep the rock work a good distance away from all 4 sides so all should be kept very clean also.

Lighting: Either a whole lot of LED lighting or a MH/actinic combo. I have a 48" Solaris currently on my 120 and I am mostly very happy with it. The quality is great but I am still a bit unsure as to how I like the look of the light itself. It is the H series (400 watt 20k) and it is bright but not as quite as MH IMO and although it provides a shimmer effect it is not quite as strong as MH. This may be one of the last things I decide as the 120 is very new and I'd like to evaluate the performance of the Solaris over the next couple months before making such a large investment in them

Flow: This one is completely undecided. I have never used a closed loop before and I am afraid to. I have always used power heads and own and love both Tunze streams and Vortechs. However, neither will work with magnets at a 1" thickness. That leaves me with the standard Tunze mounts which I don't love. Any input here would be great. I getting closer each day to deciding on giving the closed loop a try but I worry of a failure resulting in the floor drain being used for what I hope it will never be.

Any input on closed loops on a system this size is greatly appreciated. I'm totally new to them and do not even know if i'd like to drain from the back/sides or bottom and return through the bottom or top. The other issue with the CL is the lack of flexibility it provides vs. power heads. I am assuming however that employing an OM device and some locline for a bottom return or other adjustable returns such seaswirls for over the top returns would at least partially solve this problem.

This is the last aspect to be decided upon before the tank order is placed.

Substrate: This will be a SSB for decorative purposes only. I know it can get messy with a lot of flow but I've never been a big fan of the bare bottom look (some look great, just not for me). It will be kept to a minimum and kept as clean as possible.

Stand: Metal constructed by a local fabricator. This will be started as soon as the order for the tank is placed.

Sump: The current rough plan calls for a 72" x 18" sump. This should be finalized by the weekend. In the name of redundancy there will be two return pumps. One will pump to the fuge which will be distributed through the system. The other will feed a manifold which will directly return to the tanks on the system. A third pump will feed a second manifold which will deliver water to the skimmer, reactors and other equipment as well as be used for water changes, draining, etc. Feedback here would also be great as this is the first system near this scale I am attempting. As I mentioned, I'm very open, so please don't hold back.

Fuge: The as yet undetermined size fuge will be located above and fed from the sump and will gravity feed into the main display, frag tank, and any other livestock holding tanks connected to the system.

Frag/Prop Tank: This will be located on the back wall of the fish room on standard height cabinets. It will be fed by both the fuge and the main return pump manifold.

Additional Displays: I plan to place a few smaller "private" displays alongside the Frag/Prop tank on the cabinets along the back wall. These will be for small species tanks, non-medical/non-QT isolation, etc. They will be tied into the main system via the fuge drain and main return pump and they will drain into the main sump. I am also toying with the idea of being able to take these offline easily making them independent systems if needed.

Skimmer: I'm 90% decided on the Deltec AP1006 with SCH. (http://www.deltecusa.us/proteinskimmers/ap1006.php). The only alternative I am considering is the BK 650 ext. If anyone can make a good argument for the BK over the Deltec (or vice versa) please do so.

Calcium Reactor: Undecided. I seem to notice a lot of success with the Schuran Jetstream reactors and people always seem to rave about the GEO reactors. I may also go with the Deltec PF1001 to possibly keep the whole system Deltec. Feedback appreciated.

Fluidized Reactors: 2 or 3 Deltec FR1016 or FR1020 off the equpiment manifold for running Rowaphos or carbon if needed.

Controller: I will be using a Neptune Systems ACIII Pro as I currently have one and I am familiar with it and have not had any problems with it tho the AquaNotes software could be vastly improved.

Tank Temp Control: If MH are used I will definitely be running dual chillers (model undecided) for redundancy. If I go with the LED lighting I may go with only one. A LFS informed me that they no longer carry titanium heaters because if you placed two of them too close together they will go haywire and just keep heating the water. Has anyone ever heard of this before?

Environment Control: I briefly discussed humidity/temperature control with my HVAC guy the other day and will be going over it with him in much more detail within the next two weeks. There will certainly be a dehumidifier unit in place. He has said there are two types. One which vents air outside and one which doesn't. I am waiting on details of both from him so I can investigate them myself.

Power Backup: A dedicated breaker box will run for the fishroom and a natural gas generator will be installed to provide emergency power for outages to the vital equipment and vital home appliances.

This was just typed now in one sitting and as it is late I'm sure there are some mistakes, oversights, etc. This is hardly a complete plan, but rather just an introduction to this project. It will be a long project and I'm happy to be able to bring people along with me and receive feedback at the same time. This is my first undertaking anywhere near this scale so please, let me know where I am wrong as I am sure I am in at least a few places.

The hole in the wall (114" x 37"):



The hole with a CD Case for scale:



Another (messy) basement shot:



I hope to place the tank order within 2 weeks as well getting the stand construction underway. I am also attending and plan to pick up equipment @ the upcoming MACNA in Pittsburgh. I will be driving there from NJ in case anyone else from the area is.

I will be updating this as often as things happen. Wish me luck!


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Old 08/30/2007, 05:05 AM   #2
Stoneyscoral
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Good Luck!

Now that is a basement, it looks spacious.

Sorry, no helpful input right now. It looks like you have it covered.


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Old 08/30/2007, 05:25 AM   #3
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Tagging along, that is a huge basement.


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Old 08/30/2007, 07:13 AM   #4
Atomikk
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Personally, I would have gone with a longer tank, and not as high. With height you will need more wattage to light up your tank (if you intend on keeping corals). Plus, there will be more space to design your reef.


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Old 08/30/2007, 08:14 AM   #5
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First this will be great to watch, subscribing now!

Second you should have no problems running the RODI through a faucet tliek that as long as it's PVC

Third, I know your talkin gto the HVAC guy but do make sure this issue is full addressed. Evaporation will be massive in a tank that size. You will FOR SURE want one that vents outside as the problem with dehumidifiers are really hot and this ends up defeating the purpose and you have to get a huge chiller anyway! You will for sure want to coat the room in something waterproof such as Bidgekote (what I used) or FRP board. It will be humid in there period.

I would also suggest making a kick on the door and then making the room essentially sealed in so that the humidity does not creep into other parts of the basement.

I would also highly recommend you get a chiller if you don't go with the Solaris for 2 reasons. The first being you don't want to use any ffans as that will only increase evaporation and add to the humidity problem (in fact I would cover as much of the sump, etc as you can) Second for insurance purposes. You'll have thousands invested. Set it at 83 and it might never run but when somethign happpens that once you'll be glad you have it!

In a tank that large I would highly highl;y recommend a couple closed loops. You can put a big pump such as the 1/2 HP in this link http://bermudaaquatics.com/hepumps.htm and get 10,000 GPH out. Break that into about 6-8 outputs and you have great flow. with all the options of 8way's and locline, etc you can have infinite flexibility. I would probably do 2 of them. I would personally have the inputs on the back of the tank and just run the outputs over the top. If you haven't seen this aritcle it's a great way to do it.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/short.htm

and examples http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic26465-13-1.aspx

Your only real alternative to that is Tunze's but you'll need a ton of them and you have lots more options with the above.

I would personally highly highly recommend 4 waveboxes from Tunze also. I don't know if you've ever seen these things in action but they are unbelievable! I have 2 on my 450 and it produce a 2" way and keeps all the detritus suspended nicely.


Man your where I was about 18 months ago (except mine is 1/2 the size) so check out my thread if you haven't! Plenty of good stuff and bad stuff to learn from that


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Old 08/30/2007, 09:16 AM   #6
46bfinGA
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Sounds like your going to have a sweet system. I have a few comments.
1. Will the Solaris LED grow corals on a tank this high? Sorry Im a bit naive on these unit's.Have you considered T5's?

2. The 1" black acrylic is expensive your right,but you can always buy the transparent and then have the builder install a piece of 1/8 or 1/4" black acrylic sheet over the transparent piece.Or on the cheap you could use some inexpensive plastic or vinyl panels and velcro them to the back of the tank so they can be removable for cleaning.Thats what Im doing on mine.

3. Closed Loops,I have the same feelings as you.Scared to death of the leaks associated with a bulkhead draining your tank.On my 500 I plan on using 2 OM4Way's and 2-Darts on my closed loop and will be sure to install all my returns and drains as high as possible to reduce the amount of water that could be drained out in the unlikely event of a flood.After seeing countless closed loops here on RC,I feel safe about using them.

Good luck with the tank,sounds like you have one hell of a project ahead of you.



Last edited by 46bfinGA; 08/30/2007 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 08/30/2007, 09:19 AM   #7
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OOps double post.


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Old 08/30/2007, 09:34 AM   #8
Albright
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Quote:
Originally posted by Atomikk
Personally, I would have gone with a longer tank, and not as high. With height you will need more wattage to light up your tank (if you intend on keeping corals). Plus, there will be more space to design your reef.
Thanks Atomikk, believe me, I wanted to go as big as I could! Within reason of course

There is a wall about 18" to the left and a column a bit further to the right of where the tank is. I wanted to center it on the part of that wall which will be exposed to the room from which you will view it. With a 10' tank that left about 18" on each side. I could have maybe pushed it to 11', but that would leave 12" on each side making access from the sides which I would like harder. The 18" also leaves me some space for either side overflows or some external waveboxes (being discussed with builder).

The acrylic also comes in sheets of 10'. acquiring larger sheets gets much more expensive very quickly.

I'm not too worried about the height as if I do MH I will surely be doing 400watt fixtures and a lot of them.

I really feel the depth of 5.5' will give lots of aquascaping options and allow a natural look and feel.


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Old 08/30/2007, 09:54 AM   #9
Albright
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Quote:
Originally posted by kwl1763
First this will be great to watch, subscribing now!

Second you should have no problems running the RODI through a faucet tliek that as long as it's PVC

Third, I know your talkin gto the HVAC guy but do make sure this issue is full addressed. Evaporation will be massive in a tank that size. You will FOR SURE want one that vents outside as the problem with dehumidifiers are really hot and this ends up defeating the purpose and you have to get a huge chiller anyway! You will for sure want to coat the room in something waterproof such as Bidgekote (what I used) or FRP board. It will be humid in there period.

I would also suggest making a kick on the door and then making the room essentially sealed in so that the humidity does not creep into other parts of the basement.

I would also highly recommend you get a chiller if you don't go with the Solaris for 2 reasons. The first being you don't want to use any ffans as that will only increase evaporation and add to the humidity problem (in fact I would cover as much of the sump, etc as you can) Second for insurance purposes. You'll have thousands invested. Set it at 83 and it might never run but when somethign happpens that once you'll be glad you have it!

In a tank that large I would highly highl;y recommend a couple closed loops. You can put a big pump such as the 1/2 HP in this link http://bermudaaquatics.com/hepumps.htm and get 10,000 GPH out. Break that into about 6-8 outputs and you have great flow. with all the options of 8way's and locline, etc you can have infinite flexibility. I would probably do 2 of them. I would personally have the inputs on the back of the tank and just run the outputs over the top. If you haven't seen this aritcle it's a great way to do it.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/short.htm

and examples http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic26465-13-1.aspx

Your only real alternative to that is Tunze's but you'll need a ton of them and you have lots more options with the above.

I would personally highly highly recommend 4 waveboxes from Tunze also. I don't know if you've ever seen these things in action but they are unbelievable! I have 2 on my 450 and it produce a 2" way and keeps all the detritus suspended nicely.


Man your where I was about 18 months ago (except mine is 1/2 the size) so check out my thread if you haven't! Plenty of good stuff and bad stuff to learn from that
Hi Keith. I've gone over your thread a few times Great build.

I plan to seal the room up as much as possible. The paint will be whatever I can find that is most waterproof and will cover the walls and ceiling. The floor will be tiled like a bathroom with the floor drain in the middle. Almost like a big shower.

I'll almost surely wind up with a chiller even with the Solaris lights. The initial thought was that with the backup generator and a cool room it wouldn't be needed. However, every time I say that I wind up needing whatever I thought I didn't. For the relatively small additional cost I think I'd be silly not to add one in regardless.

Thank you for the articles. My gut keeps telling me I'm going to wind up using CLs quite possibly in addition to waveboxes. I'll be reading up as much as I can on CLs over the next few days so thanks again for the links

Thanks for also clarifying that the faucet will be fine for the RO/DI. My only other concern was the stagnant water sitting in the line leading towards the faucet. I plan to incorporate something similar to what you did so the reservoir doesn't fill gradually but rather empties, then fills, then empties, etc. This leads me to believe the water sitting in the feed line is ok also.

Thanks again for coming along for the ride. I really appreciate the advice and help.


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Old 08/30/2007, 10:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by 46bfinGA
Sounds like your going to have a sweet system. I have a few comments.
1. Will the Solaris LED grow corals on a tank this high? Sorry Im a bit naive on these unit's.Have you considered T5's?
46bfinGA, nice to meet you.

I'm not sure on that with the Solaris lights. They claim the H series is a 400 watt equivilent so IMO it should be sufficient. I will certainly research that more specifically before making the plunge to cover it with LEDs. I'm waiting to see the performance on my 120 before I fully consider applying them here.

Quote:

2. The 1" black acrylic is expensive your right,but you can always buy the transparent and then have the builder install a piece of 1/8 or 1/4" black acrylic sheet over the transparent piece.Or on the cheap you could use some inexpensive plastic or vinyl panels and velcro them to the back of the tank so they can be removable for cleaning.Thats what Im doing on mine.
Yep, this was recommended to me by the potential builder and I am considering it. In the end I will probably wind up with it as its removable.

Quote:

3. Closed Loops,I have the same feelings as you.Scared to death of the leaks associated with a bulkhead draining your tank.On my 500 I plan on using 2 OM4Way's and 2-Darts on my closed loop and will be sure to install all my returns and drains as high as possible to reduce the amount of water that could be drained out in the unlikely event of a flood.After seeing countless closed loops here on RC,I feel safe about using them.
I'm very close to just saying go for it. I agree that seeing it so frequent and hearing more often about the actual tank seams failing rather than the CL plumbing feeling makes me fairly confident. I may go through the bottom for the drain tho and it still worries me. A few more days of reading about it and sleeping on it for sure.

Quote:

Good luck with the tank,sounds like you have one hell of a project ahead of you.
Thanks. I hope to keep it moving at a fairly fast pace.


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Old 08/30/2007, 10:10 AM   #11
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Thanks Stoneyscoral and Paikuhan. I'll try to snap a few photos with a wide angle lens to get a better idea of the area. To the left of the tank will be a large bar/back bar and to the left of that are 4 full sized windows. The basement is a full walkout and when finished the area where the tank is will feel like a first floor of a house.


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Old 08/30/2007, 10:19 AM   #12
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wow this tank is going to be awesome!!! tons of jealous people here!!


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Old 08/30/2007, 10:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by thor32766
wow this tank is going to be awesome!!! tons of jealous people here!!
Thanks Thor. Jealousy is no good Anyone who lives or ever happens to be in the area will be more than welcome to come and see and enjoy it. After all, without RC this wouldn't be happening.


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Old 08/30/2007, 12:46 PM   #14
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Hi,

Take a look at the killer closed loop system:



You can see more details of this tank in this thread:

http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/inde...6&topic=4463.0


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Old 08/30/2007, 03:09 PM   #15
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Hi Albright,

I have a question for you? Are you sure you can build that big of a tank with only 1" Acrylic. My Tank will be 96 x 42 x 32 and is made out of 1" Acrylic!!!! I ask him about making mine 9', he said not without going to 1-1/4" acrylic.

My Builder (James at Envision Acrylics) Says there is no way he would go over 8' on my tank without going to 1-1/4 Acrylic. He said the tank would proberly bow over time if we used 1". Your tank is much longer and wider than mine.

I would make sure before you let someone build it out of 1" Acrylic. I realize you may can, But there is a good possibility it will bow over time.


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Old 08/30/2007, 03:16 PM   #16
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hey thats a nice closed loop!!!! i am a little bias though


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Old 08/30/2007, 05:03 PM   #17
Albright
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Quote:
Originally posted by LEPRECAUN
Hi Albright,

I have a question for you? Are you sure you can build that big of a tank with only 1" Acrylic. My Tank will be 96 x 42 x 32 and is made out of 1" Acrylic!!!! I ask him about making mine 9', he said not without going to 1-1/4" acrylic.

My Builder (James at Envision Acrylics) Says there is no way he would go over 8' on my tank without going to 1-1/4 Acrylic. He said the tank would proberly bow over time if we used 1". Your tank is much longer and wider than mine.

I would make sure before you let someone build it out of 1" Acrylic. I realize you may can, But there is a good possibility it will bow over time.
What type of bracing will you be using? I'm sure that has to have an impact on the required material.


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Old 08/30/2007, 05:06 PM   #18
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I would think 1 1/4" acrylic would only be issue for a tall tank.. usually any tank over 36" tall... but with a 34" height.. 1" should be fine!


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Old 08/30/2007, 05:10 PM   #19
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that basement is bigger then my house


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Old 08/30/2007, 06:00 PM   #20
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It will have the standard two large opening on top that James uses. So bracing will be pretty good. He still told me you need 1-1/4 for larger tanks than mine or you risk the tank bowing in a few years. Call James at Envision and talk to him about your built. Can't hurt to talk to him. He has built hundreds of tank for people on here. 1-503-646-1431.


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Old 08/30/2007, 06:08 PM   #21
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As a matter of fact there is a thread right under this one titledGabiel's new 300 gallon ENVISION tank. Look at the tank, James built it to.


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Old 08/30/2007, 06:25 PM   #22
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James is the builder I have been speaking with. I didn't want to mention who it was in case for some reason I don't go with him as he has been extremely helpful and knowledgeable.

The tank will be very heavily braced including a brace along the length of the tank in the center due to the larger depth. I have a feeling it is the additional bracing that is allowing the 1" to be used. He even mentioned if I recall correctly that 3/4" could be used for the sides. Not 100% sure on that but it will be 1" around regardless.

Did not mean to be confusing just didn't want to name someone before being sure I was going with them.


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Old 08/30/2007, 06:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by tanya72806
that basement is bigger then my house
Thanks I think it will come in somewhere around 2000 sqft of finished space down there but possibly a bit less due to the utility area.


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Old 08/30/2007, 06:39 PM   #24
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Ah thats the reason, I understand now. My tank is the standard opening not with all the bracing.

He is currently building me a 72 x 36 x 25 Refuguim and a
72 x 30 x 25 sump


Great guy to work with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Old 08/30/2007, 06:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by LEPRECAUN
Ah thats the reason, I understand now. My tank is the standard opening not with all the bracing.

He is currently building me a 72 x 36 x 25 Refuguim and a
72 x 30 x 25 sump


Great guy to work with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very nice sump & fuge. I'm wondering if I should go with a bigger sump. I'm toying with the layout a lot.

James has been great so far. I'm pretty much settled on him


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