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Old 12/01/2008, 06:19 AM   #526
EnglishRebel
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Keeper, Capn, & Paul B
Another question. I am finalizing my order with LifeReef for a Berlin sump, skimmer and refugium. In discussing my piping configuration I was advised not to run the water coming from the display tank directly into the refugium but to tap off the return pump. The reasoning was that I didn't want to have the fish poop and other "junk" going into a refugium.
Can you great seers give me some advice as to the best solution with reasons.
Thanks


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"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. "
Sir Winston Churchill praising those young RAF pilots.
August 20th 1940
Click on my name for drop down list and select "Visit EnglishRebels Home Page" for my build thread.

Current Tank Info: 60x30x24 200G AO custom glass tank, basement equipment room, 30G and 55G Fuges, LifeReef sump & 30" skimmer.
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Old 12/01/2008, 06:29 AM   #527
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Thanks, Tom.. and Capn Hylinur-
I would only use a PM if it were truly private. I'll also check out more of the FAQs and instructional threads. I do understand about the same questions asked over and over... and over. We have the save thing on our forum and some people keep suggesting a Q & A page but that defeats the interaction with newbies and getting to know them.
If you get a moment and would like to browse, visit: www.traveltalkonline.com I'm a mod on BVI and BVI People Talk as well as Charter Boat Reviews and Questions. We're over 3 million hits a month and BVI gets about a dozen newbies a day now. We've only been a forum since the fall of 2000 and it's growing daily but the mods are still purely volunteers.. upaid too!

I can see that Reef Central is huge with tons of resources and information. I just need to take the time to explore it all and find more info. Wife and I went to our store yesterday and got a green polp soft coral (need to know real names) and "he's" apparently happy, open and looking good. Have a banded coral shrimp (aka Rambo) in there and he's quite aggressive with fingers. No fish yet so we'll see how he reacts. Only have a 25 gal so not wanting many fish.. maybe 4 or 5. Waiting for a white anemone and will get 2 clowns for that. Would love a couple tangs too .. and maybe a gobi. Wife loves the mandarin gobi but we're told it might not do well in the nano environment.

Last.. does anyone have experience with a product Eco Aqualizer? I have one on line and it seems new and supposedly replaces the protein skimmer. One call to the Charleston Aquarium for a reference got excellent reviews but no one in my area seems to know much about them.
Thanks all for you comments.
Bill


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Old 12/01/2008, 06:33 AM   #528
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Quote:
The reasoning was that I didn't want to have the fish poop and other "junk" going into a refugium.
Well you better wait for those other "Great Seers" but IMO whatever is in your tank and where ever it is, it is going into your refugium at some time anyway and it does not matter at what point it goes in there.

Oh hail Great Seer Waterkeeper. Come fourth and gather information for this depressed hobbiest.

(he likes it when you call him like that)


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Old 12/01/2008, 06:52 AM   #529
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Paul
The water off the return pump has already been skimmed which is why I raised the issue. Not sure if all the poop and "junk" has been removed.


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"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. "
Sir Winston Churchill praising those young RAF pilots.
August 20th 1940
Click on my name for drop down list and select "Visit EnglishRebels Home Page" for my build thread.

Current Tank Info: 60x30x24 200G AO custom glass tank, basement equipment room, 30G and 55G Fuges, LifeReef sump & 30" skimmer.
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Old 12/01/2008, 06:56 AM   #530
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Originally posted by Paul B
Well you better wait for those other "Great Seers" but IMO whatever is in your tank and where ever it is, it is going into your refugium at some time anyway and it does not matter at what point it goes in there.

Oh hail Great Seer Waterkeeper. Come fourth and gather information for this depressed hobbiest.

(he likes it when you call him like that)
If Bill is looking at a Aqualizer I need to step in FAST!
(Marc, Melev the RK editor, will kill me because I promised this months Newbie Forum column by noon. It will be there Marc. )

Dear Bill,

Do you believe that their is a good fairy or that magnets will soften water? If you do then an Aqualizer is for you. You need a ton of faith it you think it will work on a marine tank. For those of us that are less starry eyed I'd place that money on a good HOB skimmer. Air bubbles do far more than magnets at purifying tank water. Something like a Remora or CPR should do.

Let's also keep that stocking wish list under restraint. With good lighting an anemone and clowns are fine but tangs are far too large for a 25. Do some looking around and keep the fish length at only about 2-3" max. The Dragonet, mandy, needs lots of copepods to survive. A 25 won't support one unless you also plan on adding a large refugium.

Keep going with the research and develop a game plan before parting with those $$$. There is a lot of snake oil touted to the unsuspecting, new hobbyist.


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Old 12/01/2008, 01:30 PM   #531
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WK-
At the risk of putting everyone to sleep, let me give you a bit of my background. I'm coming up on 70 next spring, semi-retired from owning my own marketing/ad agency for 31 years. Yep, I'm the guy who thought up all those fish oil campaigns for crap you don't need and shouldn't buy.

I looked at the Eco Aqualizer claims with more than skepticism. In fact, the claims were so all-encompassing that I was determined to find out just how outlandish they really were. I called the company and asked for a phone # for a commercial user. They hooked me up with the curator of the Chattanooga Aquarium. The name I had wasn't there but I did get a Dr. Rijah Agasassinian (spelling is a pure guess) who talked for 30 minutes praising their units. They have over 60 on their single species tanks and extremely pleased after almost 2 years.

Then I went in search of Dr. Nelson Herwig, aquarium curator of the Houston Zoo. He is retired and they would not give me a home number but the person I spoke with did acknowledge that the aqualizers are in use there and they're pleased with the results.

That led me to Google Herwig and I found an article by Ben Johnson, "caretaker of the Houston Zoo's reef ecosystem" at this URL: http://www.ecoaqualizer.com/FactorFiction.asp That article is reprinted from Tropical Fish Hobbyist.
I also found references here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/magneticfltfaqs.htm but they are inconclusive.

I finally called the company back and asked about their refund policy again. It's 180 days, no questions asked and immediate. They also offered to email me the names and addresses of the seven people who have returned them. I bought it. I installed it. It's only been 10 days so nothing to base much on but my saltwater dealer asked me to bring in a water sample each week so they can see what's going on. I did it for the first time yesterday and the water was perfect.. everything right on the nose.

It might be the tooth fairy in disguise.. or the magnets that cure pinched spinal nerves but I have nothing to lose as long as I monitor this thing and don't let my tank go to hell without careful analysis. My dealer also has a protein skimmer all packaged up for me and ready to go at a moment's notice.

I shall keep you up to date and we often say.... we shall see.
Bill.......... still optimistic.


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Current Tank Info: 25 gal Eclipse w/charcoal filter, 40 Eco Aqualizer, live rock and live sand and a power head.
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Old 12/01/2008, 01:50 PM   #532
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wow 70 years old--now I am convinced that there must be a 90 year old reefer out there


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Old 12/01/2008, 01:51 PM   #533
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BVISailor, you diden't put me to sleep and I am glad there is someone here older than me and because I never heard of an
ECO Aqualizer I was interested. A friend of mine sells those magnets for back pain and swears they work. I think he is dreaming as he thinks everything works.
I am facinated by magnets and build all sorts of things out of them but so far I have not found any use for them other than generate electricity.
I would be interested in learning the theory of this thing.
I personally can't see how it will do anything but I have an open mind.
What were the parameters of your water before you installed the thing? Were they also perfect?
And Bill, thanks for the input


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Old 12/01/2008, 02:16 PM   #534
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Paul,
I too am still skeptical and watching this "tube" like a hawk. You can see and review their claims on their web site www.ecoaqualizer.com and even watch an animated video of their ionization and magnetic molecular theory. I'm far from an organic chemist so I can't comment on their claims other than to say, "If it works, they've got a slick piece of equipment on their hands." BTW, they also claim it does wonders for swimming pools, hot tubs.. you name it.

The parameters on my tank were pretty slim. I started out with store bought live rock, live sand and their RO seawater. I had already ordered a couple things, one of which was a CoraLife hydrometer. I got all their stuff home last Monday and carefully placed the live rock, sand and then very slowly added the water. My hydrometer read 1.020. I was shocked the store would sell low saline water but they are closed on Tuesday so off I go to Petco to buy some Red Sea salt and get the level up. In 24 hours I had it at 1.026 and 79.2 degrees with water running through the Aqualizer, a separate charcoal (came with the Eclipse tank and cover) filter and small powerhead with a 50 watt heater.

I want back to my store on Friday and told them about the salinity level and they were shocked. He asked me to bring my hydrometer in with a water sample. Did this on Saturday and my salinity was 1.029 on his refractor and hydrometer. The CoraLife was that far off and still read 1.026. Trashed that and got a good one. All the water tests were perfect at that point.. every test possible. Bought the coral banded shrimp, a bunch of small snails and crabs plus the two soft corals. I need to clean the glass in a few spots because there are brown spots forming but the water seems excellent.

I'm testing it myself for ammonia, nitrate, nitrite and Ph but I'm also going to take samples for them to check on too at the store. They've been extremely professional and prevented me from buying things more than wanting to sell me something. Only time will tell but as I said, I'm not going to let it get out of hand. I'm not that trusting. If the water quality stays as it is now without a protein skimmer then we might have something interesting to quantify. I'll report in and let you know how it's going.. good or bad. And thanks for you comments and interest.
Bill


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Current Tank Info: 25 gal Eclipse w/charcoal filter, 40 Eco Aqualizer, live rock and live sand and a power head.
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Old 12/01/2008, 02:29 PM   #535
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It is going to be hard to test the thing on your tank.
Many tanks water parameters stay perfect without a skimmer. It also depends on live rock, livestock and too many variables to mention. If you took some water with some plant fertilizer added for nitrate and run it through the the Eco whatever I would like to see how it works. I am going to look at their web site when I get a chance.


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Old 12/01/2008, 02:36 PM   #536
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WK
Any comments on my post that Paul B replied to?

THANKS GREAT KEEPER OF THE SACRED WATER (methinks that accolade will elicit some response )


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Alan

"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. "
Sir Winston Churchill praising those young RAF pilots.
August 20th 1940
Click on my name for drop down list and select "Visit EnglishRebels Home Page" for my build thread.

Current Tank Info: 60x30x24 200G AO custom glass tank, basement equipment room, 30G and 55G Fuges, LifeReef sump & 30" skimmer.
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Old 12/01/2008, 02:51 PM   #537
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There has been a post or two about it here Eco Aqualizer Thread.

Happy reading.


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Old 12/01/2008, 02:57 PM   #538
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I see your point, Paul. I might never know anything really conclusive about how well it operates still I also have another filtration system and lots of live rock and sand. That along might be doing the trick. You do have a good point.. dose the water with the problem chems, then see if the Aqualizer does anything to deal with them. That would be much more conclusive.

Let me know more about your opinion after you browse their site.
Thanks
Bill


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Current Tank Info: 25 gal Eclipse w/charcoal filter, 40 Eco Aqualizer, live rock and live sand and a power head.
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Old 12/01/2008, 03:15 PM   #539
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Ouch WK,
I read that whole thread and now have a headache only a good martini will cure.

Far infrared.. ceramics.. magnetic fields.. put the three together and you should have hyperpurified water that makes your corals glow in the dark! The report of more active fish might be due to them trying to determine their polarity. Makes me wonder if magnetized clowns will stick together.

I especially like the remarks about the placebo effect. I know it has worked on some human subjects but how does the water know whether it's working or just a placebo gimmick? Maybe water is really more complex than we know and knows the difference. That gives new meaning to live rock. I didn't want to say it but I do think my live rock moves at night under the moonie LEDs.

I guess I'm lucky so far that only a few of you have read my posts and I haven't gained a widespread Reef Central reputation for being a gullible nutcase.

Now... where are my olives? I need a drink!
Bill H


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Current Tank Info: 25 gal Eclipse w/charcoal filter, 40 Eco Aqualizer, live rock and live sand and a power head.
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Old 12/01/2008, 03:40 PM   #540
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Cheers, and no you're not the first to want an Aqualizer. I have fellow stafff members who love their Kold Ster-ils. That's after my trashing the units over 7 years ago when I first visited RC. Go figure.


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Old 12/01/2008, 03:51 PM   #541
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Wow I have an idea for a great invention. Instead of liverock maybe we can use Live Lodestone. You know natural magnets.
We could kill two birds with one stone, or maybe one tank with two lodestones.
Either way, it sounds like a load.
I like OZONE if anyone cares. OZONE does what that Eco thing does or what it says it does much more gracefully.
Ozone is made in the atmosphere and is a natural part of it.
I personally have been using it for about 35 years.
The inside of my nose is rotted out from sniffing it, I just love the scent. Very Manly.


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Old 12/01/2008, 04:24 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul B
The inside of my nose is rotted out from sniffing it, I just love the scent. Very Manly.


Must make it hard when you put on the white beard this time of the years. But the sparks form the toy trains at least give you a brief wiff.


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Old 12/01/2008, 06:06 PM   #543
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I'll be putting on the beard very soon my friend and I guess thats why I still love my 60 year old Lionel's




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Old 12/01/2008, 06:16 PM   #544
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Oh man, my mom threw out my set when we moved to Ohio. It was a real great 027 set and even included some of her old trains (gauge not known but it was wide). It was heart breaking. I give away M gauge sets to the kids but it is not like it use to be.

Ever noticed that when we are on the same thread we stray into the past?




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Old 12/01/2008, 06:40 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally posted by BVISailor
Paul,
I too am still skeptical and watching this "tube" like a hawk. You can see and review their claims on their web site www.ecoaqualizer.com and even watch an animated video of their ionization and magnetic molecular theory. I'm far from an organic chemist so I can't comment on their claims other than to say, "If it works, they've got a slick piece of equipment on their hands." BTW, they also claim it does wonders for swimming pools, hot tubs.. you name it.

The parameters on my tank were pretty slim. I started out with store bought live rock, live sand and their RO seawater. I had already ordered a couple things, one of which was a CoraLife hydrometer. I got all their stuff home last Monday and carefully placed the live rock, sand and then very slowly added the water. My hydrometer read 1.020. I was shocked the store would sell low saline water but they are closed on Tuesday so off I go to Petco to buy some Red Sea salt and get the level up. In 24 hours I had it at 1.026 and 79.2 degrees with water running through the Aqualizer, a separate charcoal (came with the Eclipse tank and cover) filter and small powerhead with a 50 watt heater.

I want back to my store on Friday and told them about the salinity level and they were shocked. He asked me to bring my hydrometer in with a water sample. Did this on Saturday and my salinity was 1.029 on his refractor and hydrometer. The CoraLife was that far off and still read 1.026. Trashed that and got a good one. All the water tests were perfect at that point.. every test possible. Bought the coral banded shrimp, a bunch of small snails and crabs plus the two soft corals. I need to clean the glass in a few spots because there are brown spots forming but the water seems excellent.

I'm testing it myself for ammonia, nitrate, nitrite and Ph but I'm also going to take samples for them to check on too at the store. They've been extremely professional and prevented me from buying things more than wanting to sell me something. Only time will tell but as I said, I'm not going to let it get out of hand. I'm not that trusting. If the water quality stays as it is now without a protein skimmer then we might have something interesting to quantify. I'll report in and let you know how it's going.. good or bad. And thanks for you comments and interest.
Bill
Bill, suggest you invest in a refractometer of your own---a little less prone to user error ect


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Old 12/01/2008, 06:45 PM   #546
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Quote:
Originally posted by WaterKeeper
Oh man, my mom threw out my set when we moved to Ohio. It was a real great 027 set and even included some of her old trains (gauge not known but it was wide). It was heart breaking. I give away M gauge sets to the kids but it is not like it use to be.

Ever noticed that when we are on the same thread we stray into the past?

the past eh---- I recognize Tom to the lleft, Paul in the middle but darn if I can ID the third


BTA--would make a good avitar for you Tom--for the xmas season


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Old 12/02/2008, 05:17 AM   #547
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Quote:
Ever noticed that when we are on the same thread we stray into the past?
Us three (OK you two) are old.
I doubt most of these younguns have a clue what we are talking about. They think a Lionel is a computer game.


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Old 12/02/2008, 07:54 AM   #548
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Looks like you need a real senior to remember the details.
I just passed my Lionel OO gauge set on to my grandson when he turned 12 last August. I promised it to him six years ago when he was old enough to take good care of it. It was a Christmas present from my dad.. Christmas 1945, when they resumed manufacture after WWII. The locomotive and cars are all steel and the controller transformer weighs 18 lbs and is the size of a breadbox. All the track switcher are solenoids and you don't want your finger between them when they switch over. Sadly, I'm out of the little white pellets that you put in the stack on the locomotive light. They made the smoke puffs. I don't think they make them anymore and I've Googled myself silly trying to find out what they were with no luck.

As for Santa gigs.. I have white hair & white beard for many years now. They pay mall Santas pretty well so I let it all grow, bought the suit and did it. Three days into HO HO HO and some little kid asks me if I will bring him a new bike for Christmas. I look up at mom and dad and they're nodding yes. I look at the little guy and say, "I'll bet I can fit that in my sleigh for you, Bobby." His eyes got wide, his mouth opened up, he wiggled on my knee and then proceeded to pee all over himself and me. I finished the next two weeks but retired from the Kringle thing after that. (www.billhartzman.com)

BTW, I checked out the Aqualizer last night with all the lights out and did not see any infrared light, no magnetic sparks and strange ions being emitted. I'm beginning to think I have water circulating through a plastic tube of little rocks but.. they're very expensive little rocks!!

Sure is nice to find another forum of geezers. I'm G1 on mine (www.traveltalkonline.com as BillH, mod) but have G2 and G3 close behind. Cheers all.
Bill


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Current Tank Info: 25 gal Eclipse w/charcoal filter, 40 Eco Aqualizer, live rock and live sand and a power head.

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Old 12/02/2008, 09:08 AM   #549
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Nice story Bill. You are about ten years older than me but you look much younger than Waterkeeper.
I got my Lionel's when I was born in 48.
They still run great but I rarely put them up anymore. I may this year since I am thinking about it. I have to find them first.
I have been doing the Santa thing since the late sixtees. My suit was my Father n laws and it is older than I am.
I want to get a new one but the decent ones are over $400.00.
Some people bought me a new beard a couple of years ago which was about $200.00.
Every year they invite me to play in NYU hospital in NYC where they have a floor for very advanced cancer children.
I really hate doing it because it is so depressing and it takes a lot out of me but I feel I have to keep going.
Many of these kids don't make it out of there and most of them are there for experimental treatments. Their parents stay there with them and they really do seem to appreciate it.
Most of the kids (and many of them are infants) are too weak to even lift their head or take the gift but they all try to smile and I have to be Jolly and happy. The beard hides my real expression.
We go there with about ten people who help in figuring out what child would like what present. We get way more gifts than they could ever use but they have a day room where the healthier kids could play and also their brothers and sisters are there visiting.
The toys have to be sterilized first with alcohol and I have to wash my hands between each room. A lot of the rooms I can just wave from the door because they are in isolation.
Sorry about the depressing post.
Paul
This is from my wife's office, Not the hospital



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Old 12/02/2008, 09:26 AM   #550
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul B
Nice story Bill. You are about ten years older than me but you look much younger than Waterkeeper.
I got my Lionel's when I was born in 48.
They still run great but I rarely put them up anymore. I may this year since I am thinking about it. I have to find them first.
I have been doing the Santa thing since the late sixtees. My suit was my Father n laws and it is older than I am.
I want to get a new one but the decent ones are over $400.00.
Some people bought me a new beard a couple of years ago which was about $200.00.
Every year they invite me to play in NYU hospital in NYC where they have a floor for very advanced cancer children.
I really hate doing it because it is so depressing and it takes a lot out of me but I feel I have to keep going.
Many of these kids don't make it out of there and most of them are there for experimental treatments. Their parents stay there with them and they really do seem to appreciate it.
Most of the kids (and many of them are infants) are too weak to even lift their head or take the gift but they all try to smile and I have to be Jolly and happy. The beard hides my real expression.
We go there with about ten people who help in figuring out what child would like what present. We get way more gifts than they could ever use but they have a day room where the healthier kids could play and also their brothers and sisters are there visiting.
The toys have to be sterilized first with alcohol and I have to wash my hands between each room. A lot of the rooms I can just wave from the door because they are in isolation.
Sorry about the depressing post.
Paul
This is from my wife's office, Not the hospital
depressing --I think not

You are a true hero to these kids---that's wonderful to me


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