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Old 04/29/2007, 07:47 AM   #1
elegance coral
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Elegance Coral theory

This should go to my theory.


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Old 04/29/2007, 07:31 PM   #2
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Sounds logical enough. I had one that was under 20k lighting. I didn't know anything about the illness at the time. After posting some pics of the coral I was told to maybe try and move it a little closer to the light and maybe that would help. Well I figured I'd do one better and buy some more lighting. Well it was in my tank for 6 months until I added the light and next thing you know it was a slime ball. Good read and very thought provocing.

Thanks elagance.


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Old 04/30/2007, 12:27 AM   #3
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Proper acclimation to lighting definitely is prudent advise.

Do you think it is 10k lighting in particular that is harmful (a 175w 10k lighting is worse than a 400w 20k for example) or just bright light in general? I had thought of it being lighting also but I have seen elegances melt under very blue vhos at a good LFS, and a friend has an indo one that is growing under his 400w 10k with actinics.

Either way, it was very interesting.


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Old 04/30/2007, 07:09 AM   #4
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So what lighting do you suggest that we put an elegance coral in and what is the time frame/method for toughing them up for 250w 20k lights? Thanks for the article.


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Old 04/30/2007, 10:07 AM   #5
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Could you please elaborate on your study? Are there any controls in which there are established, healthy animals that were not exposed to other elegances' nor in the same system. Are the experimental conditions in the same tank or are they seperate?


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Old 04/30/2007, 06:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshua1023
Sounds logical enough. I had one that was under 20k lighting. I didn't know anything about the illness at the time. After posting some pics of the coral I was told to maybe try and move it a little closer to the light and maybe that would help. Well I figured I'd do one better and buy some more lighting. Well it was in my tank for 6 months until I added the light and next thing you know it was a slime ball. Good read and very thought provocing.

Thanks elagance.
Thanks for the complement and for sharing your experience. Maby if we can get some more people to share their experiences with these corals we can all learn how to better care for them.


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Old 04/30/2007, 07:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by redFishblue
Proper acclimation to lighting definitely is prudent advise.

Do you think it is 10k lighting in particular that is harmful (a 175w 10k lighting is worse than a 400w 20k for example) or just bright light in general? I had thought of it being lighting also but I have seen elegances melt under very blue vhos at a good LFS, and a friend has an indo one that is growing under his 400w 10k with actinics.

Either way, it was very interesting.
This is the problem. Finding the correct lighting. I believe that there is a limit to the depth at witch an elegance can live. I also believe we are harvisting them very near this maximum depth. There seems to be a very slim margin for error when decreasing light. The slightest drop in light will cause them to bleach. This is why I have 2 bleached corals. You have a little more wiggle room when increasing light from this point. The aquarium my corals are in now has light that looks slightly blueish. Not the crisp white light of the 10K and lower bulbs. I am running a 250W 14000K MH and actinic lighting. This seems to be working best. I believe that to muck light of any kind can be bad for these corals. If your lfs was running these vho's close the these corals they would glow like neon signs and look cool, but I don't believe this is the natural lighting they come from so I would not be shocked that they melted. I think the key is to try and mimic the light that they came from. Not an easy job I know. The indo elegance may have been collected in shallower water. I kept a shallow water elegance under 250w 5500K MH and it out grew a standard 55gl aquarium. I have heard that the Australian Elegances don't have the problem like the rest seem to. They don't need to dive to great depths to find them there.
Thanks for taking the time to read it and I'm glad you found it interesting.


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Old 05/01/2007, 06:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by gholtmeyer
So what lighting do you suggest that we put an elegance coral in and what is the time frame/method for toughing them up for 250w 20k lights? Thanks for the article.
I don't feel that 250w 20K lighting is all that bright. Did you have an elegance show these symtoms under these lights? Inflated oral disk and shrunken tentacles, and if so how close to the the light was it? I actually think that this may be a good place to start. I wouldn't put the coral directly under the light unless it was at least 1 foot under the water. With this light this is where I would start. Then I would adjust the corals position up or down as needed. With all the different light combinations available to us it is hard to say exactly what combinations work and what wont. Maybe some day we will all have light meters we can put in our tanks and tell exactly how much light our corals are getting. Untill then we just have to keep guessing.
One more thing to keep in mind about lighting is photoperiod. The amount of time that a deep water coral recieves enough light to fuel photosynthesis is much shorter then its shallow water relatives. I would run this light for about 5 hours in the middle of the day and florescence the rest of the time.
My study into how long it takes to completely heal one of these corals is ongoing. Most of the corals I have have been through the ringer in the past year. Bright light, dim light, low flow, fast flow, brown jelly, hunger, food soaked in phospate, abuse by tank mates. You name it and these poor fellows have been through it. I can't really put a time frame on this based on these corals. I still need to buy more corals to finish this research. I have no idea what i'm going to do with all these corals when I'm done.
I hope I answered your questions and thanks for taking the time to read my theory.
PS. Sorry its taking me so long to get back with the people that have asked me questions. I am having trouble with my ISP. It should be fixed on Tuesday



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Old 05/01/2007, 04:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by kramgnik
Could you please elaborate on your study? Are there any controls in which there are established, healthy animals that were not exposed to other elegances' nor in the same system. Are the experimental conditions in the same tank or are they seperate?
Without an independant supplier it would be impossible for me to obtain an Elebance that I knew had not come into contact with other Elegance corals. I guess the closest thing I have to a control is my experiance and knowlage of these corals. The main question I am trying to answer is, What can the average aquarist do to keep these corals healthy. To answer this I have placed my corals in many different environments to find out what works and what doesnt. I know how a healthy coral reacts to different environments so I'm not sure what I would learn from having a healthy one here. I have used seperate systems during the course of my study but as of right now they are all in the same tank. Right now I am trying to prove (at least to myself) that this is not a contagion. I have 7 Elegances in different stages of this condition and one that shows no signs of it in the same tank. If this one and more that I purchase remain healthy living in this tank, that will be proof enough for me that it is not a contagion.


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Old 05/01/2007, 06:24 PM   #10
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I just wanted to say I am glad you are testing your elegance theory. I really like Elegance, but will not buy one till I am sure I can have it live. I will be reading this thread.

Cheers,
Chris


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Old 05/02/2007, 06:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by guntercb
I just wanted to say I am glad you are testing your elegance theory. I really like Elegance, but will not buy one till I am sure I can have it live. I will be reading this thread.

Cheers,
Chris
I see you live in Land O Lakes. I live in Lakeland. Maybe when I'm done with my research You can take one of my corals. I will have more then I have room for. They should be healthier then the ones that are new to the hobby. The only problem is that I dont know when I will be through.


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Old 05/02/2007, 02:17 PM   #12
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Once again, I have 2 250w and 2 110VHO. The lights are approx. 8 inches off of the water and the coral that I had was sitting on the sand. The sand is about 18 inches from the water surface. I had the elegance for almost a month before it died. It looked fine, then I came home one day to find it a mass of goo.


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Old 05/03/2007, 06:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by gholtmeyer
Once again, I have 2 250w and 2 110VHO. The lights are approx. 8 inches off of the water and the coral that I had was sitting on the sand. The sand is about 18 inches from the water surface. I had the elegance for almost a month before it died. It looked fine, then I came home one day to find it a mass of goo.
What you are describing sounds like a fast moving infection, not light exposure. These animals can be injured very easily opening up a sight for infection. These infections can move very rapidly not only in Elegance corals but in many corals. iodine supplements, while not a cure all, can help to prevent these infections. You said that your Elegance looked fine for almost a month. If it were a lighting issue the coral would show its displeasure in a day or two.


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Old 05/03/2007, 09:54 AM   #14
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Elegance

Hi guys,
I have had an elegance survive well for over a year now. It seems to be very happy. Some things I have noticed though, they seem to love the bottom of the tank and be in the sand. It doesn't mind a little flow (medium). I have a 150g with 2 xm 20k 250watts on the ends and 1 10k xm 250 in the middle. My elegance sits in the middle of the tank in the sand. The single biggest thing I have found to keep it happy and healthy is to dose phytoplankton. I have used DT's and now am using Kent Marine's Expert series phytoplankton. I add a couple of drops 2x weekly. I actually decided for a while not dose it to see how it affected it...my elegance actually started dying very quickly. On one end the skeleton actually became exposed. I started right back up with the phyto and with 2 weeks it had regrown the dead spots and tentacles are already extending from that spot. Pretty amazing...


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Old 05/03/2007, 10:37 AM   #15
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That is amazing. I have never made a connection between plankton and Elegance corals. Do you feed it any larger foods like shrimp or fish?


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Old 05/03/2007, 11:14 AM   #16
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feeding???

I do not target feed it at all. I do feed the fish 2 cubes of brine/mysis 2x daily though. I pour the food in directly over the elegance. The fish usually get all the food before any gets to the elegance though. I have used cyclopeeze on occasion too. The elegance seemed to like that, but no near as much as the phyto. In those 3-4 weeks that I didn't dose, the elegance's color was not good at all and it wouldn't open up like it usually did. Keep in mind the phyto is the ONLY thing that I did different from my "norm". If you want to know what my regimine is let me know (as far as supplements etc...)


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Old 05/03/2007, 04:28 PM   #17
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I'm more interested in your feeding. If your willing, I would like to see a little experiment. Try wiggling a small piece of shrimp or fish in its tentacles as if it were a small fish struggling to escape. The Elegance will grab it and put it in its mouth. A day or two later it may contract a little to dispose of any undigested food, but it will come right back. Before you start use a referance point in the tank to note how much the polup expandes. Feed the coral once a week for 8 weeks. At the end of 8 weeks check your referance points to see if the polup is expanding more then it was in the begining. I think you may be shocked at the results. If you don't want to try this because your Elegance is alive and seems to be doing well I understand. I just thought it would be interesting.
Thanks for your input.


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Old 05/03/2007, 06:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by elegance coral
What you are describing sounds like a fast moving infection, not light exposure. These animals can be injured very easily opening up a sight for infection. These infections can move very rapidly not only in Elegance corals but in many corals. iodine supplements, while not a cure all, can help to prevent these infections. You said that your Elegance looked fine for almost a month. If it were a lighting issue the coral would show its displeasure in a day or two.
That is a good observation. It would be easy to attribute death to the "unknown elegance syndrome" while its actually from a bacterial infection resulting from an injury.


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Old 05/03/2007, 09:56 PM   #19
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Elegance injury

Interestingly enough, my elegance was subject to an injury 4-5 months ago when my show-size hammer colony fell on it....it was damaged in 3 different places. I thought it would surely die. It came back after 3-4 weeks time with no problems. Mine has been reziliant.


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Old 05/04/2007, 04:58 AM   #20
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Re: Elegance injury

Quote:
Originally posted by vogs82
Interestingly enough, my elegance was subject to an injury 4-5 months ago when my show-size hammer colony fell on it....it was damaged in 3 different places. I thought it would surely die. It came back after 3-4 weeks time with no problems. Mine has been reziliant.
Sadly, you are one of the lucky few these days. You have some nice lights on your tank. I believe they become more reziliant as they acclimate to brighter lights.


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Old 05/04/2007, 11:22 AM   #21
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I dont really see how an elegance can eat phyto. Would you consider an elegance a filter feeder? I wouldnt. I think it is quite coincidental and anectdotal, but to each his own.


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Old 05/04/2007, 05:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serioussnaps
I dont really see how an elegance can eat phyto. Would you consider an elegance a filter feeder? I wouldnt. I think it is quite coincidental and anectdotal, but to each his own.
No I wouldn't. I guess it is possible that the coral could absorb a limited amount of nutrients from the water due to the feedings, but they don't feed on plankton directly. This is why I suggested he try feeding larger food items over 8 weeks time.

In my opinion, one problem hobiests have with Elegance Corals is that their coral looks good to them so they keep doing what they have been doing. This is normally a great philosophy, but may not be the best with Elegances. Most hobiests don't get to see what a healthy and happy Elegance looks like after several years in captivity. They see the Elegances in their LFS. They are beautiful but have been stressed from shipment half way across the planet. They are very small in comparison to what they looked like in the wild and what they can look like in captivity. In the right conditions these things get huge, and in a relatively brief period of time.
Recently on a different web sight a man was showing off his large elegance. He said it loved the high flow of his SPS tank. In the pic all you could see is tentacles. It was huge, but one big mass of tentacles. You couldn't see the oral disk at all. I'm sure he just didn't know what his coral would look like in a lower flow enviroment. If he moved that coral it probably would double its expansion in the first week or two.


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Old 05/09/2007, 04:39 PM   #23
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Loved the original thread Darrell and eventually found this one as well and thank-you for putting your experiences into words, I know that must have been quite hard and time consumning. I haven't had my elegance long but the polyps are all extending and it is feeding quite well, I dont have to target feed it because I do see some success from my regular feeding regime and the elegance definetely closes up around this time so I can only assume its feeding on something. I havent tried a target feed as yet (next on my list) but will try with some small brine shrimp (if that seems reasonable to you). Its in a large tank, on the sand (buried in due to conical shape of the base) and extends very well under my 3 x 250W 14k MH which are supplemented for 2-3 hours (split dusk/dawn) with 2 x 58W blue actinics. No sign of polyps shrinking but what is the over sized oral disc ? I posted a pic of mine in your first post so I guess if you noticed any issues you would have said at the time. Thanks again, great write up.


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Old 05/09/2007, 06:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Taz_Devil
Loved the original thread Darrell and eventually found this one as well and thank-you for putting your experiences into words, I know that must have been quite hard and time consumning. I haven't had my elegance long but the polyps are all extending and it is feeding quite well, I dont have to target feed it because I do see some success from my regular feeding regime and the elegance definetely closes up around this time so I can only assume its feeding on something. I havent tried a target feed as yet (next on my list) but will try with some small brine shrimp (if that seems reasonable to you). Its in a large tank, on the sand (buried in due to conical shape of the base) and extends very well under my 3 x 250W 14k MH which are supplemented for 2-3 hours (split dusk/dawn) with 2 x 58W blue actinics. No sign of polyps shrinking but what is the over sized oral disc ? I posted a pic of mine in your first post so I guess if you noticed any issues you would have said at the time. Thanks again, great write up.
Thanks for the kind words.
You will know the over sized oral disk if you see it, but I don't think you will. The polup will swell with water and contract its tentacles. There is a pic of one here on RC in another thread. I will try to find it and let you know where it is so you can check it out.
I wouldn't use brine shrimp. Its not that they are bad its just that they dont have much of a nutritional value. At least the adults. The babys with the yoke sack are better. Did you read my sugestions on feeding earlier in the thread? If so try that and see if it make a difference in the growth of your elegance. It does sound like your elegance is managing to grab some particals from the water as you feed your tank, but I wonder how much food its getting. These corals can be pigs. If you do deside to try feeding like this, let me know how it goes, and thanks again.


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Old 05/10/2007, 05:43 AM   #25
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I found the pic. It is in the Reef Discussion forum and posted on 3-12-07. The title is Elegance Coral Question.


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